10 Questions with ... George King

BRIEF CAREER SYNOPSIS:

Since 2014, George King has served as VP/Country Programming for Westwood One's 24 Hour Network Formats, working with all its shows, jocks, and affiliates. King's oversight includes Mainstream Country, Hot Country, Classic Country, and Real Country 24-hour radio formats that air on nearly 700 stations nationwide. Before joining Westwood One, King logged decades in local radio, covering various markets of all sizes. His experience includes helming iconic stations such as KNIX/Phoenix, WMZQ/Washington D.C., and both San Antonio Country stations, KCYY and KAJA. He was Townsquare Media's Country Format Brand Manager prior to his Westwood One move, a role which prepared him well for handling programming on a national level.

1. George, thank you for taking the time to answer "10 Questions" for us - it's long overdue! Let's begin with an overview of your responsibilities as Westwood One VP/Country Programming. How many shows, personalities, and overall services are you handling day-to-day?

Just on the Country side, our business is so different from local radio business that I have seven different Country formats, including a couple of shows, as well, that we help program music for. We have "The Lia Show," "Nashville Country Gold with Terri Clark," - we'll put the music together for that show - and then, of course, all of our formats have multiple platforms, so it keeps us pretty busy. We distribute and sell Whitney Allen's "Big Time" show through our system, but there's no programming input with that; she has control over production for that show.

2. You and I have talked about music a lot, and you've previously mentioned that you have to work way ahead. Of course, PDs in radio do, too, but it's more critical on the network level, isn't it?

Yes, for a number of reasons. We have to get our affiliates logs in advance, and - just technology wise - we have to be ahead of ourselves, because we have to get music meetings all set and ready for our schedulers to get logs to the affiliates. It takes time. And, we look at music about 10 days ahead, so, from the day you look at it to the day it's on the air, databases and categories are changed. For the new Blake Shelton, as an example, we had to get it in advance to be on time. That's totally up to the labels, and hopefully they understand our position. I'm sure there's a lot of other companies that need things ahead of time for shows, and for a big artist like Blake, we want to make sure we're timely like everybody else.

3. Having spent a short time in syndicated/network programming myself back in the day, what struck me at first was how critical customer service is for your affiliates, possibly more so than serving listeners on the local radio level. You basically have as many PDs sharing opinions on music and such as you do affiliates, right? How much finesse does that require?

As I've said for the three years I've been in the network, our end user isn't really a listener; it's an affiliate operator, or an affiliate PD, or OM who's taking our service and our programming, and we almost have to program to them, so that they can turn our services into as local as they can be on their end and within their local market. People will call us and ask, "Well, why aren't you on this song?" because they see it on the charts, or they've heard it and want to know why we're not on it and when we're going get on it. Those types of questions are what we usually get, but we're pretty conservative, musically - we have to be, because of the number of affiliates. We can't program regionally, we can't program specific states or markets, we've got to work from Alaska to Florida, Maine to Hawaii.

4. The good news is that you have sat in their chair; your station-level programming experience covers markets all around the country and in various market sizes. I'd imagine there's no question that would stump you in that regard. Is this true?

Not off the top of my head! Mostly, the questions I will get stumped on are more on the technical level, such as, "Hey, we want to do this - how can we make that happen?" And, you know, when you're running network programming like we have - and, we try to be as flexible as we can - whatever they're looking to do, we're trying to make it happen for them. So, that could be the challenges that I would run into on a weekly or daily basis. "Hey, we want to do this, how can I make it work so that it sounds great on the local end?" It's got to come through the programming side first to make sure it makes sense, which is one of the things I really like doing in all the years that I've been in the business. You're working with Program Directors in - almost exclusively - all the medium and small markets, and you must be able to help them turn their radio station into the best station it can be. Using my experience and taking our programming - which is the music, the jocks, and the imaging - there's a lot of little finesse things that we can help them with, which is hopefully something they're learning from me and the network. They're using us almost as consultants.

5. With three and a half years on the networking side of the biz, is there anything you wish you knew while on the station level that you know now?

I have taken some of Westwood One's programming and other programming when I was working on the local side, and what I see on the network side is that it really does matter what you're doing on the local side. How much you put into it locally will make it sound so much better. Our programming is 24/7; you can just flip a switch, and it'll sound great, but you can make it even more local or sound better for your market by doing a few little things that people sometimes don't do; or, sometimes, they can't do. I see some of the people I talk to running two or three stations at a time, and there's not that many people in their facility. So, first and foremost, it can be everything they need us to be, but it can be so much better with a little bit of input from the local PDs.

6. Let's talk about your radio journey. You have some legendary call letters on your resume - KNIX, WMZQ, KAJA, KCYY - and have been in a corporate role as a Country Brand Mgr. for Townsquare. What made this opportunity so appealing to you?

I think it was an incredible timing issue, having worked in local radio for over 30 years in those markets you listed, and working for those great call letters with incredible people and jocks. The last stop, before I came to Westwood One, was with Townsquare as a Brand Manager, and I was able to work with multiple medium market stations across the West for the company; it set me up for this job. I just remember John Paul, who had the [Westwood One] position before me, had always talked about how he thought this was the greatest job in radio. I remember when the opportunity came up, and I was talking with the folks at Westwood One, and now being here for over three years, it really is. I'm having more fun now than I've had in 30 years in radio. The cool thing about the network is, again, being able to use my experience and help these guys out as much as I can. But also, it's pure content - that's what we do. We do some promotions; we don't do a lot with sales, because we're giving programming to local affiliates, so we can't fill in with a lot of things, but great music, great content, great jocks, and hopefully some great promotions, as well. The fun part about it is that I get to come to work every day and think almost entirely of content, where a lot of times with local radio, you can't. There's the business side of everything, but I think on the network side, we have to be so focused on content and delivering that to our affiliates; it's what we all got into radio for. I was talking to somebody a couple weeks ago - I think it was a new artist - and they were asking, "Why have you stayed in this so long?" I said, "I still get excited over new music, and to be able to share it with the audience, and what a great audience I get to share it with now for almost 700 radio stations - just in the Country formats."

7. I want to ask about one market, in particular - San Antonio. It's always been a very competitive battle between the two legendary Country stations there - KCYY and KAJA - and you've had the perspective of having programmed both of them. Can you share your thoughts on the city as a Country market and how that battle has been waged over the last 30 years?

It's one of those definite Country lifestyle markets. Both of the radio stations and heritage call letters have great people that I was blessed to work with and for. A lot of those folks are still there and still competing. I think it's one of the great competitive battles in the country; you've got the legendary morning show on KJ [KAJA], and you've got the guys at Cox who are, again, all with a great company that really believes in their people. It was great to see both sides of that, and I really cherished all the years I spent at each of the stations, and the people there. That was probably the biggest thing - those people, I think more so than any other market I was in - a good portion of people at those stations were born and raised in those markets and live, eat, and breathe the San Antonio Country market. There's a lot of passion for Country radio at those two radio stations, and I was glad to be a part of it.

8. Speaking of competitive markets, I have to bring up Phoenix, which is also on your resume. KNIX and KMLE, like in San Antonio, keep taking turns at the top. Are those battles just going to be cyclical when both stations have heritage, are owned by great companies, and are well-programmed? Because, it seems this way.

I think what happens is that - across any type of business - you'll do what it takes to get to #1. The tough part is staying there - whether it's in sports, business, or whatever - in radio, it's the same thing. It's a lot easier to become #1. You'll spend the money and do things, then once you're there, you have to work even harder to stay there. And, it is true on a reciprocal level, where stations in all these competitive markets will do really well, and hopefully it makes both stations better, because they're all beating each other up trying to outdo each other, and that's fine - that's what we go to work for every day. Watching it from afar now - after being out of the market for, jeez, 14 years now - it's a little bit different. I'm not in that market to hear what's going on in the radio stations, but I don't know if it's a Country lifestyle market like it used to be back in the 90s. I don't know if that's because the stations are so focused on beating each other up that maybe the audience is losing out a little bit. I'm always interested when ratings come out in that market, because it's my second home, but I've always hoped that those Country stations would always do much better in the market and be top tier #1 or #2 stations like it used to be. But, they're still great radio stations that are competing on a daily, hourly basis to beat each other up. I think in the long run, it's a good thing, because it'll hopefully make both stations better.

9. With your long history in the format, you've seen a lot of trends come and go. You and I go back to the Class Of '89, when Country blew up big and became mass appeal. That felt like the world came closer to Country music, whereas currently, it seems the music has reached out to a wider, younger audience less bound by genre descriptions and definitions of music. Do you see that as well?

It's probably been some time now - and I did start with the Class Of '89 and grew - but, I would say that for at least a good 10 years or longer, we've been a mainstream format. We're not the stereotypical "Country Bumpkin" format, or only appealing to a certain rural type of listener. We are mainstream; we are a format that everybody can and does listen to. We're not restricted by age or ethnicity, and we are probably the only format out there that has as wide of a range out there that we do. Literally, cradle-to-grave. Our audiences are all over the place, and that's good, because there's no other format that I know of that can boast that. We can be as wide of an audience as anybody out there.

10. Also, traditional-sounding music was once the core, or foundation, of this format; now, it's very influenced by Pop and other genres. We have the Jon Pardi, the Luke Combs, and Midland making it to the top, of course, but the format still skews very contemporary. Do you see it staying this way?

I think it's always going to come to what sells, and if that's what's selling to the Country music consumers and the Country radio listeners, then we'll be successful with it. I do think it's cyclical; I remember when I first got into Country in the mid-80s, and at the time, Kenny Rogers was crossing over, and he was the biggest thing we had. Then, Randy Travis comes in, who's completely opposite and goes back to the traditional sound. We talked about the cyclical way of how music sounds and trends are constantly evolving. I think that's what's exciting about Country - it's always changing. You just wait two or three years, and we've got something new. We were also talking about the first time I remember when Bro-Country started, which was - to my knowledge - Jason Aldean and his "Dirt Road Anthem." I thought it was cool, and I remember not being sure if the audiences would like it. Then I went to a concert, and everybody was singing, and I was like, "Okay!" I remember the day that Country music changed with Garth Brooks; I remember the day when the Dixie Chicks started; I remember the day when Bro-Country started. I think now we're seeing a little change back to some of that traditional sound with the artists we just talked about, and where they used to be. That sound was the base and bulk on your radio station. Then, Bro-Country came, and that was the flavor, and now all of a sudden, that rhythmic and beat Country is mainstream music, and that traditional sound is coming back to be the flavor of your radio station. So, I think it's swinging back and forth.

1. Your company has the "Icon" brand that serves up an older sound in its music mix. Do you ever see Country songs splitting off into two distinct formats like AC and Rock have done? I'm asking because of the seemingly big divide in taste between 18-34, and 35-plus listeners.

I remember back in the early 90s, when the newer Country stations were coming out, every market had one, and it didn't last very long. In the markets where you have a competitive situation, you look at it and say, "Okay, where can I take my station? The heritage station, or the #1 Country station, is leaning towards mainstream sounds. Should I go in a direction of playing more newer music or more older music?" I think that's how it's going to splinter; I think it kind of has already. It'll depend on market and region, too. But, I don't know if we'll see a hot Country station that's completely different than the mainstream Country station in the market. It's just because the audience that listens to Country radio is sometimes a lot older than the buying Country audience, which is something we have to address to keep those people. We do it on the network; that's my job every day. I've got seven different formats, and each one of them have to be different, so we try to change those a little bit where our Hot Country format is definitely going to play newer music more often, as opposed to the mainstream station or the Nash Icon station or Classic Country one. On the network side, we're always looking at how to differentiate our formats so that if there is that chance in a market - if you've got a heritage station and you're looking for something different - we've got a product for you. We compete against each other in many markets, not just in different formats. In the Country format, if our Mainstream Country product is in the market and someone wants to use another one of our products, we've got to cover products that they could look at and use in that market that are completely different - jock wise, imaging wise, and musically. I think the Westwood One products are a little bit ahead of that curve, because we have to be. I really feel good about our Westwood One products, and think it's such a great thing to have as many as we do; we can be whatever anybody is looking for as far as Country or any other of our formats. We have well over 20 different formats in all genres that can be in a market, and have five or six different formats, stations, and affiliates all using the same product. Our technology is incredible, and so is how we deliver it. And, we can be a lot more local than people think with a network or syndicated product. We can be as local as they want to be. Icon came here to look at how and why we do things, and being able to deliver the product as well as we do and not make it feel like it's a radio station in a box. Our jocks can also be a part of the community, knowing a lot of local stuff that we get from the local PDs and affiliates, our jocks are able to talk about that. The technology has been really interesting and exciting over the last three years - to see how it works and to be able to deliver it to our affiliates.

2. When you are recruiting talent for these 24/7 stations, that's a different search than the local level, right? Being on-air is a universal thing and a great talent, but there are some specifics to being on a network. Can you talk about that?

It's a lot different. Yes, they have to be great jocks - they have to know the format, the music, and all that - but, the interesting thing is, because we do say we have dayparts, all of our dayparts kind of run on Eastern time zones. So, guess what? My morning guy is the overnight guy on the West Coast, my midday jock on the East Coast is the morning person on the West Coast, and so forth. All of our jocks have to be very personable, but we're not looking for a prototypical morning guy or night guy; we're looking for jocks that can be at a high level with content and have a personality, but not go overboard. When you work for the network, I think any of my jocks can work any one of our shifts and that type of programming, because you just don't know what time zone you'll be in. I hired a new night girl, and she kept referring to nights, and I kept getting a call from our Hawaii affiliate, saying, "You know she's middays here!" So, little stuff like that, you probably never think of until you're in the network business. One of the things I teach the jocks is, "When you're taking a break and trying to think of content, think of a map of the United States, because whatever you say has to work everywhere. So, keep that in mind as you're trying to create content, and think about what you're going to say and make sure that you're able to say something that will work almost at any time in any place in the whole U.S."