10 Questions with ... Kid Rock

BRIEF CAREER SYNOPSIS:

Kid Rock arrived on the scene in 1998 with the release of "Devil Without A Cause" and immediately began blazing a unique musical trail. Fusing Hip Hop and Rock, he created his own, unique lane, became a huge concert draw, and sold millions of albums. But, his musical awareness extends much deeper, with a near encyclopedic knowledge of and appreciation for Country music. In 2002, he had what was seen as a surprising hit at Country radio, teaming with Sheryl Crow for "Picture," a song that was closer to traditional Country than many songs on the radio at the time, and it went on to earn a CMA nomination for Vocal Event Of The Year in 2003. He scored another multi-format, mass appeal hit, "All Summer Long," in 2008. When he's onstage performing, Kid Rock is undeniably Kid Rock, the Rock star. Offstage, he'll politely extend his hand and quietly say, "I'm Bob Ritchie, nice to meet you." Kid and Ritchie graciously invited All Access to his Nashville home to share his musical knowledge, covering songwriting, the process of making records, the state of Country music, the state of Rock music, and the kind of music fan he sees every night when he hits the stage.

1. How are Bob Ritchie and Kid Rock different? And, how are they alike?

Just go to a show, and you'll see. I step onstage with Kid Rock. They're always the same person, but at the same time, they're different. I'll put it to you this way - especially since we're in the Country format - it's a funny story. Years ago, I was talking to Kenny Chesney about something. I'm usually up as Bob Ritchie at about five in the morning. I like to have my coffee, get a lot of things done, and just have my time. So, we're texting about something - this was years back when my son was still in high school - he said something like, "Dude, are you still up from the night before?" And, I was like, "Kenny, don't get it twisted. Kid Rock is absolutely up from the night before in a hotel room with four scantily clad women, but Bob Ritchie is making lunch, getting ready to take his kid to tenth grade." That's probably the best way I can explain it to you.

2. You have a deep, seemingly encyclopedic knowledge of Country music, which is surprising to a lot of people. How did you find Country music and when? What kept you going down the rabbit hole?

My parents had some of those records. They weren't huge Country fans, but they did like Waylon, Johnny Cash, and Elvis. There was a lot of other music in the house. My dad was a huge Johnny Cash and Waylon fan. Thank God, because I got turned onto good stuff when I was young. They would listen to the Country stations a lot, and I'd be in the car, coming from church or from wherever we did Christmas that year. It was on those family drives, and I'd be like, "Come on, turn it off," because when you're a kid, I wanted to a rebel and rock, which got me so into Hip Hop, I guess. That was my early introduction. Then, as I grew - even before I had success with "Devil Without A Cause" - with my first album, "Grits Sandwiches For Breakfast," I can remember using Country scratches and samples, and we'd cut even stuff like Jim Croce, more Folky. But, Folk and Country, to me, are one in the same, because [they have] great songwriters and singers. I was even incorporating some of that, but we could never get the samples cleared back then. I was a nobody at eighteen years old, rapping dirty lyrics. People thought I was bananas. As early as that is when I started getting into [Country music]. Then, as I started growing as a musician through the 90s and being a songwriter on top of being a programmer/DJ/rapper, I started learning that I could carry a note a little bit, and really enjoyed writing songs and melodies. That really, really got me into it, just like most people that start to discover themselves as a songwriter. There [are] well-written songs in every genre, but there's quite a plethora in Country music.

3. Young artists coming up today are coming from two generations: the iPod and streaming. But, you obviously opened yourself up to all kinds of music, too. What was your "everything" as a kid, and where did you find it - radio, records, record stores?

All of the above - with every tool that was available being in Romeo, Michigan, where we didn't even have cable. When we'd go on a vacation somewhere, I used to see MTV and go, "Whoa! This is mind boggling!" because, we had three channels. When I was very young, we had a party line that people shared on the block, which is really old, and I only caught the tail-end of it. People had phones, but we only had five numbers when you dialed a call. So, it was all of that: parents, record collection, my older sister and brothers, friends at school, a lot of radio. Back then, especially with the Hip Hop stuff, which was totally foreign, you'd go to the record store, and there was a bin with about twelve records, and that was the Hip Hop side. We're talking mid-80s, when it really started getting mainstream with all the early Run DMC, Whodini, Beastie Boys, and stuff like that. I was looking for Master Flash records and stuff that I would hear, like Rock Master Scott & The Dynamic Three. And, stuff that I'd hear on the DJ mix shows, like Electrifying Mojo and The Wizard in Detroit - they had these late-night shows where you could hear all that. I compare that to people that listened to the Opry on AM radio when they were young - that's how they discovered a lot of stuff. Even though the ages change, it really doesn't change how you get turned on to hearing new stuff. But, trying to find those records, we didn't have any of the stuff we have now. You had to find the record, and by record, I mean record! Not a CD, and there was no way it was going to be on cassette. You had to find these twelve-inch records, which started taking me to Detroit, because there's a few of those black record stores where you would go, and they'd have these records on the wall. I remember how magical it was as a young teenager going down there, seeing these records on the walls, these Miami-based artists or these Techno artists like Juan Atkins. And, early rappers, even stuff that was coming out of Houston, like Rap-A-Lot Records, the Geto Boys, even outside of the popular Run DMC - I just remember that feeling of being a kid. And, as you're older, you wonder if kids have that feeling now. My sister was listening to Tom Petty and The Tubes. My brother was into U2 and Duran Duran. And, my parents had this collection from Fleetwood Mac to Elton John, Bob Seger, and some of these Country records. They'd stay up and try to impersonate Elvis, and they'd bring me out and have me do "Bad Leroy Brown" for all their friends when I was five years old. So, there's just always been a lot of music around. We had a very small black population in my school. Some of them had cousins in Detroit, and they'd get those Run DMCs 12-inches and let me take them home for the weekend. Then, they'd take me to backyard parties in Detroit to see these DJs spin, and I wanted to go back and ruin my mom's aerobic turntable, learning how to scratch by cutting felt out of her sewing kit. It was all over the map. Then, we had a banjo in the house - I don't even know what for. We had a piano, an acoustic guitar, and eight-track stereo, and there was a banjo. I had no clue how to do any of them. My mom tried to get me to take piano and guitar lessons. I used to hide in the closet. Like, "Every Good Boy Does Fine" was so boring. I wanted nothing to do with it; I want to learn how to play songs. So, I would just sit there and hit notes of melodies I heard. I remember picking up the banjo, and you'd hit the banjo, and it would make rhythmic sounds like a drum. I just made the best out of whatever it was.

4. So, were you one of those kids in school who were deep into music - kind of an outlier?

Yeah, I was deep into the whole culture, especially into Hip Hop, break dance, graffiti, and DJing. I remember I had a friend who was a drummer and who was into Cinderella - I think they were on Def Jam. I remember comparing t-shirts. We didn't realize at the time that that was Rick Rubin. But, yeah I used to DJ at high school dances. I would carry his speakers just to go to weddings at twelve and thirteen years old. The only place [Country music] was when I would be mixing two things together; I started to accumulate little samplers and would take some of those records my parents had and put them over beats. We used to take 45s and either slow them down to 33 or tape them to a 12-inch so we could mix these records together and try to get new sounds and guitar twangs from them, whether it was B.B. King or that twang in Johnny Cash records - scratchy stuff like that. Back then, I was experiencing with putting those things together, rather than just keep mixing Rap records, Pop records, and Rock records, and Country records - anything I could get my hands on - I'd just mix these sounds together.

5. The younger Millennial generation gets a lot of credit for stripping away genre definitions and boundaries when it comes to music. They like what they like and don't attach it to any label - it all goes onto a playlist. But, that's been your MO for years. Was that an innate musical taste, or did you also, at some point, have to consciously let go of musical definitions?

I think a little bit of it, as much as I hate to admit it, was stuff that fit into things. I remember my mom used to buy me records to play at dances. I remember [Guns N' Roses song] "Welcome To The Jungle," and I didn't like it. Of course, you know, for the last twenty years, it's been one of my favorite songs, ever, when it comes to American Rock N' Roll. So, I had my blinders on, and my mom was like, "You can't just play that Rap stuff all night! It's a dance! Other kids wanna here other things." And I'd be like, "Mom, you're not DJing the dance!" She actually has a great ear, especially in Country music. She turned me on to a lot of stuff way back in the day, like Joe Diffie and things like that. Nothing mainstream, because we're from Detroit, so Johnny Cash and Waylon make sense. But, I call it "moods;" I was always very open. It was whatever made me feel good, whether it was Kool & The Gang or Kris Kristofferson, like his ["Dakota] The Dancing Bear." I don't know how the hell I heard it, but I was like, "Why is this not Kris Kristofferson's greatest song?! This is my favorite song." When I was sad, if a girl broke my heart, I'd grab a bottle of whiskey and put on some George Jones, like I'm sure many people have. If I wanted to rock, I'd put on Slayer, Beastie Boys, and Run DMC records, or NWA and go nuts. It was just moods. If I wanted to feel good, I'd put on Fleetwood Mac, and that nostalgia Tom Petty. Everything that I've just mentioned also has tangents of Country in it, because Country [music] is the white man's blues.

6. The kind of Country music you first discovered would be considered "Classic" or "Legends" now; it's very different than Country music today - sonically, for sure, but song structure, as well. You're a songwriter and know this stuff better than us, so can you share what you see is the biggest difference with what works today versus what worked in the 60s or 70s?

Simple. It's Hip Hop; it's Pop music. One thousand percent. Sometimes I apologize for maybe starting that. When I was putting out songs like "Cowboy" and things like "Devil Without A Cause" and "Picture," that's an 808 drum machine with Sheryl [Crow] playing 12-string and bass. There [are] certain tones that I don't think people notice. I don't know if you've ever watched the documentary, "808," but I would highly suggest it, because that drum machine changed the face of music like the electric guitar did. A lot of people don't realize. And, that goes straight through the wall of Country music nowadays; there's not a song on the radio without an 808 sensibility in it. And, I was doing that in '97 when you didn't hear any programming. The closest thing that came to Country music was maybe Rock 'N' Roll with ZZ Top's [album] "Eliminator." That started off with Marvin Gaye's "Sexual Healing" and moved up through these genres, and that's where Country has really taken those Pop sensibilities. Half the guys you see - [Jason] Aldean or Keith Urban - it's a Rock show. I've always [given] a Rock 'N' Roll show, I just sprinkle a little Country in it. These guys give Rock shows that are all Country - it's the opposite thing. But, we're all kinda doing similar things.

7. There's a great emphasis on production these days; sometimes it can overpower the song and the artist. The production drives a lot of these records. Do you still have faith in the song?

Producers are taking pieces of the artists now; that's a common thing here in Nashville. I'm not gonna mention any names, but it's very easy to dig up. You can find the ones. I think you've still gotta have the song first. It works both ways. But, the standouts - the things that are gonna last - start with the song. The production can be whatever it is; there's obviously great production, then there's not-so-great production. That will always be, but a great song will always be a great song. Period. That's the only advice I give to kids coming up. Obviously, work hard for everything in life, but you need some songs. Period.

8. Nashville has become a place where co-writing is such a big thing, and writing alone isn't as common. Some of these songs have about twelve songwriters, and as someone who writes alone often, could you imagine working that way?

Write a word, get a third; I still don't understand that. Well, I understand it, but I just couldn't do it. Maybe I'm spoiled in that regard. I write alone all the time; I don't like to, but I do it all the time. But, going into meet at Sony at 10:30a to write songs - I don't follow rules very well to begin with. It's totally foreign to me. I remember my first time writing with [other people] - and, they were just friends - I was trying to help them out by letting them sit in with me while I write, because I like to have company. I don't like to be alone, like most people, outside of Bob Seger, who likes to sit and stare at the trees and write songs. And, God bless him - he's one of the greatest staples of American music, in my opinion. He never collaborated, and i never did either, generally. It was either a guitar player or a best friend to remind me of my experiences to help write them down. The first time I did [co-write], I basically wrote the whole song, but they were there. I think the publishers contacted me saying they each get an equal portion, and I was like, "The [hell] they do!" I'm a very generous person; most people will tell you that. Everybody gets paid what [he or she] earned, but you can't come over, sit around, [and] then try to say you wrote the song. I know who did the chorus, I know who gave this idea, I know how publishing works. If someone is just in the studio and makes a suggestion and changes the trajectory of the song, I'm like, "Oh, you're getting a piece of the song." You try and come up with it on the spot. What I don't like to do is come back to something a year later and figure it out. I like to write with people and say, "Circle what you wrote, let's all agree on something, before all the powers get involved," because when the publishers, managers, and attorneys start sniffing blood, you lose friends over it. I guess it's [about] money, but at the end of the day, it's [about] reputation and what you have to stand on. What's gonna keep you working and wanting people to work with you is being fair. I'm just starting to understand how Nashville works, because I've been down here and have had some success. I've been in the business, and I know all the artists, and they know me, but I've never been in that system. Now I know through the years why all these Country guys say, "Dude, do you know how lucky you are? You're not sitting here two hours before the show and three hours after to shake hands and going to see every radio station." We did a lot of that coming up when we were young and getting our first successful record going, but it amazes me today that the guys who have great success are still out there humping like that. The way I hear it on the street is that Garth Brooks [messed] it up for everybody! That's the Nashville underground right there!

9. As somebody who loves music that dates back, how do you feel about Country music going in a very Pop direction? Are you okay with it?

I really love the Sturgill Simpson and Tyler Childers - like, Tyler is one of my new favorite things right now; I can't get enough. Zac Brown's "The Foundation" was probably the last record I heard front to end and thought, "Wow." There's a ton of songs that I love, and there's some well-written songs. Hell, I loved [Luke Bryan's] "Huntin', Fishin', And Lovin' Every Day." When I heard that, I thought it was awesome. And, I know what it's like to be in that position, too, like, "Oh, it might not be the coolest, hippest thing to like Luke Bryan," but I know damn well that people aren't sitting around thinking that Kid Rock is the coolest, hippest thing, either I speak to those who love me, and that's it. I like to throw up a middle finger to the haters - give 'em a little something to feed on, but that's just for fun.

10. Is Rock music dead? A lot of "experts" seem to think so.

Oh, it has been for some time, yeah. There [are] a lot of young kids, though. Greta Van Fleet - that's my guitar player's band. There [are] some others, like Bishop Gunn. There's a great, young scene, and I've been checking some of these kids out, and it's great to sit there and watch them do Bad Company and Led Zeppelin covers and watch these little girls go, "Wow!" as if they heard it for the first time, and they really have, because we know how old those are, because we grew up on it, but these kids haven't. So, to see them react to these kids with long hair, their shirts off, twirling the mic, and smoking cigarettes is really kinda cool for grandpa to sit back and watch. There's definitely a big Rock scene right now. I think Country stole the last cookie out of the cookie jar, and they were smart. Rock 'N' Roll should be embracing the Blackberry Smokes, and there [are] a lot of them out there. Yet, they're caught in [being] "a little too Rock for Country" and "a little too Country for Rock." No, they're not. Rock 'N' Roll oughta go, "No; let's open our arms to them." Country's opened their arms to me. Once I had some success, everyone tried jumping across the fence like, "Oh! I'm gonna go to Country, too!" I'm like, "Don't do it It's a bad look now." If you wanna have fun and make a record, cool, but don't go out there doing all the showboating around and kissing people's behinds. I'd like to say in that regard that I was Country when Country wasn't cool!

1. Going back to what you've said about how Country stole from the cookie jar, Country and Rock have a lot of the same fans. Is that what you're seeing as you look out into the audience while you're onstage?

Look at these festivals. Over the last seven to ten years, Country was always a little scared of me at first when "Picture" came out. They were like, "Uh oh, he's gonna use those curse words," and stuff like that. Now, I get booked on every Country festival, and people go bananas. They love it. It used to be, with Country, you saw - when my parents were young - and sat down, watched Loretta Lynn sing, and it was a great evening. And, trust me, there were times when I loved to do that - to watch someone sing and play. But, that's not what's going on in mainstream Country music right now; you go to these festivals, and they're Rock concerts. People are out there wild. They all look like Hank Jr. shows back in the day, in the 80s. That's exactly what my shows are; there [are] people with cowboy hats and just going bananas. When I look out at my shows, whenever I play a Country festival - I'll play a Country festival one year, then a Rock festival the next - it's the same people. They just have a few more tattoos and wear a little more black, but it's still the same stuff. People just want to come and rock out and have fun. There's always room for everything. There are certain things that people wanna see in Country; they wanna go see an artist that isn't rocking like that, who is a Martina McBride - who's one of my favorites - and, they wanna go see this world-class singer at a show and be in that environment. Then, there are other people that wanna go out and see Brantley Gilbert and Kid Rock and go, "Whoa! We're gonna get shit-faced and have a ball tonight." You know what I mean?! There's a very fine line between [Rock and Country].

2. The Country music establishment - for lack of a better word - has, historically, viewed with suspicion, artists making Country music after a strong run in other genres. For nearly two decades now, you've been making Country music, demonstrating an understanding of its nuances and even living in this community. Has acceptance gotten any easier for you during this time?

Probably one of the things I'm most proud of, because I didn't set out to do that, because "Cowboy" and "Only God Knows Why" - which had Country tinges, but were still huge Pop successes only because of MTV, not radio - then, with "Picture," obviously, that blew up, and "All Summer Long" did, but it was never contrived in that way to go. As a matter of fact, I had a lot of resistance from Atlantic - at the time Lava Records - just because they thought it would ruin my career. I went ahead with it anyway, and lo and behold, it opened up a whole new world for me. I feel like I've always been accepted in the community - by the artists, the awards shows - and, it doesn't hurt to be walking into town hold Hank's hand, let's be honest. This last record, I didn't have a label, I didn't have anything, so it was pretty funny to go to Nashville and make a record and get these musicians - Justin Niebank and these hitters. They were like, "So, what are we doing?" And, I said, "I just got some songs...just gonna cut and record. You don't even have to chart them down. No rush. No budget. Just gonna make music." And, to watch their reaction on that, I was blow away! They're like, "Dude, you don't realize. We're used to cutting three songs in an hour in these demo sessions." I'm like, "You've gotta be shitting me." Those are the little things I didn't understand, but I'm starting to learn how things work.

3. After working with them in that way, was there any new approaches or things you took away from that experience?

Oh, my gosh, how easy it is. I've been pulling my hair out for twenty years to make records. I mean, literally, digging for musicians and just obsessing over things in the studio. When you get these people in there that are so talented and so great, I spit something out of my mouth, and there it goes to tape. Like, "I want an upfill..." and the guy does it, and you're like "Whoa! Man, have I been wasting my time."

4. You seem to get along very well with radio programmers. As someone with a broad history and knowledge of music and the music biz, what would you like them to know about your music and how should they think differently?

No matter what happens with me, I'm well. I'm more concerned about what's going on overall in music. And, I know there are so many spaces, and, to me, I would say to open their minds a little more to not be so exclusive with one thing, let's say "Bro Country" or something like that. Do we need seven of those acts doing that? Because, I think there's room for another Stapleton or two. I think there's room for a Sturgill Simpson and some people like that. I think that's what makes it so unique. And, they always do a pretty good job of it - better than most genres do - about not being super exclusive and letting other people in, and that's great. I'd say to keep on that path. I know I'm on the cusp. I've been blessed to still be able to go out and sell out shows and play when I want. So, I think there's - not just me - but other people in my position that still have something to offer. It's really about keeping your ear to the music and not getting too caught up in the stigma of things and the way it's supposed to be or who's gonna do the most for you. I think there's something to be said for investing, not only investing in the young kids coming up, because they're gonna do all the stuff they want, and there's a lot of money involved, but also investing in keeping the music good, keeping the best on top, and having some room for everybody...having room for the Bob Dylan's, the Johnny Cash's, and the Kristofferson's who may not be the best of singers, who'd get laughed off "American Idol," but still have a ton to offer. I think Country does that, but I'd like to see some more of it. They can make or break them now, just like Pop music can. If you're not on the radio, you're not selling tickets. That seems to be the way Country goes. And, I say this in any genre of art and entertainment - particularly music - we need superstars.