10 Questions with ... Jon Grayson

BRIEF CAREER SYNOPSIS:

Began as an overnight board-op at WTKN-AM in Pinellas Park, FL; then moved to WFLA-AM Tampa where I spent 8 years as a producer and weekend host. Began full-time as a host evenings at WWTN-FM Nashville. Moved to KMOX-AM St. Louis in 2000, and added syndication first through CBS then Westwood One beginning in 2009. Left to join KTRS St. Louis in 2017.

1. I've interviewed you every four years, so it's time. This time around, you're in middays at KTRS after years of doing night shows at KMOX and in syndication. After a year and a half or so back working daylight hours, what differences are you finding in both content and audience for the show? Besides being able to keep normal human hours, what do you like (or dislike) most about doing daytime talk versus the overnight gig?

Everything is completely different. I could do an hour on this question alone (but I won’t). It’s funny; one of the best-known radio personalities in town, JC Corcoran, told me over lunch once that he liked my approach to the overnight show because it didn’t sound like one - it sounded like afternoon drive. That’s what I always strove for, so the only thing that’s the same is me, I guess. It’s still a challenge to get the phones going sometimes, but now it’s because everyone’s at work instead of being asleep. But the participation at KTRS includes a text line, which is always humming while we’re on, and it instantly lets us know whether something is working. I also have a co-host now in former TV news anchor Jennifer Blome, so it’s taken some adjustment for both of us to feel out her role on the show. And it’s a much shorter show, going from five hours down to two plus the 30 minutes I do with John Carney from noon-12:30. That means the pacing is completely different. I don’t get 20 minutes to monologue and set up a topic; it’s much more in the “here’s what happened, let’s get to the phones” realm. KTRS has a much higher proportion of women listeners (right around half) than most talk stations, and certainly more than KMOX. I don’t do much differently in terms of delivery in light of that, but it does affect topic selection. That’s an area where having Jennifer around really helps to better reach them. In short, I love the changes. Complacency is the enemy of creativity, so this period has been one where I’ve had to re-learn my craft in so many ways, which is very exciting. I do love a challenge!

2. Last time, we talked about what then seemed like an increasing industry-wide acceptance of non-political, semi-non-partisan talk radio. In the Trump years, do you see that having changed, or is there an increased appetite, on the audience's part or on programmers' part, for people talking about anything BUT politics? Either way, do you see talk radio moving away from hard-right political talk once the present administration is gone?

There is absolutely an appetite for it. Our audience vehemently hates political talk, and they’re not afraid to let us know about it. McGraw Milhaven, our morning drive host, does some, but it’s not an every day thing. We do almost none. On the other hand, I can see why it still dominates industrywide. It’s difficult to ignore, as is the success that comes with it. Look at Colbert. Who would ever have thought that a late-night, TV talk show could do that much politics and survive, let alone thrive? But I think what smart programmers will realize is that when you take that path, no matter what you say, you’re driving off half your audience. It’s not like the old days when liberals would hate-listen to Rush. They come to us. But so do the conservatives, because we don’t go out of our way to dismiss them. We get to argue an issue based on its merits rather than on which side said what about it. As our boss says, there are times when you have to talk about it. The day the Cohen and Manafort cases were adjudicated, it was unavoidable. But the rule is, if you can avoid it, do. And what I’ve found is that when we do tackle those hyper-political days, it allows us to step into the moderator role and let the callers hack away at each other. But given my own, personal choice, I’d rather be talking about the worst car you ever owned or the album covers that will get you in trouble with Facebook. (Hint: Stay away from "Houses Of The Holy" and Blind Faith...)

Will talk radio take a turn back to the old ways after Trump? I hope not. Not for political reasons, but because there are no new ideas there. It's been Rush and Rush clones for 25 years now, and that has murdered creativity. They all say the same things, which means they all say nothing.

3. Since last time, you've also started -- GASP -- a podcast. What's it about and why a podcast?

That goes back to the demise of Overnight America. For the last few years of that show, we had a weekly feature with one of a rotating cadre of writers from pop culture website PopDose.com. After a time, one particular writer (the very talented Rob Ross) became our regular. We love talking to each other about everything - music, movies, TV, politics, food, just whatever - so when the show ended, we approached PopDose about turning it into a podcast that they could host on the site. They loved the idea, and I had the setup here at the house to host and record it, so on we went. It’s been a great move for both of us, because we really got to spread out. We went from a 15-20 minute segment on the radio to an hour on the web, which is a breeze for a couple of New Yorkers (Rob’s on Staten Island, and I came from Buffalo) who don’t know how or when to shut up. We still talk about everything, like a recent podcast where I did 10 minutes on a phone call to customer service that went very wrong. Plus I get to swear if I want to. Now we’re dealing with the same question all podcasters face: How do we turn this into money?

4. You are very active on social media; which platform do you prefer (and for what purposes)? What do you, personally, get out of the interaction?

I’m still very much a Facebook guy because I’m old now (I turn 49 in two weeks). I use Twitter, but usually it’s either to promote an upcoming guest on the show or to shoot out a one-liner that occurs to me. My Twitter feed, like the show, is very apolitical. On Facebook, though, it’s like my home. It can be very political, and those posts tend to be much longer than the average, which is probably why I don’t do that on Twitter. Political viewpoints should be nuanced, and even with doubling the character limit, Twitter just doesn’t work for that. But I also joke around a lot on Facebook. I’ll put up dumb jokes, tell stories, ask questions that may or may not turn into show topics, promote cool things I find (like Canadian TV series “Letterkenny,” which has become nothing short of an obsession of mine), that sort of thing. It’s very stream-of-consciousness. What do I get out of it? That’s tough to answer. I guess I get to see how many Martians out there think like me, find the same things amusing, etc. Facebook has also been a great way to keep in touch with the old listeners to the national show, and I really dig the fact that they still hang around to see what I’m going to say next. I’ve also used it to track down guests. You’d be amazed how many of the girls I had major, Hollywood crushes on when I was a teenager are now totally accessible on Facebook.

5. Another new thing since last time is that you're working with on-air partners (both on KTRS and the podcast). How difficult was the adjustment to having a partner, and how would you describe your roles on each show?

I already addressed some of that above, so I’ll expand just a little. Rob and I are like brothers, so that was easy. We also had all that history from the previous show, so really it was no adjustment at all. With Jennifer, it’s been more challenging. I wouldn’t say “difficult,” because she’s not a difficult person. But we come from very different backgrounds, and our interests are in completely different fields. I’m a music-and-humor guy. Jennifer is more thoughtful and attuned to making the community a better place. Where you’ll find me at a concert on Saturday night, you’ll find her at a fundraiser for stray animals. But I think the more she lets out of her personality on the show, the better she sounds. It’s tough for her, though, because she was trained for decades NEVER to do that. It’s made it fun for me to watch her make the adjustment and learn how to interact with calls and texts in real time. Life is much more interesting when you don’t have a script. Interesting, but not easy.

6. I know you've done the Bad Joke Wednesday bit, so what's your favorite bad joke?

This one’s from Harry Anderson: “Skeleton walks into a bar, sits down and says, ‘gimme a beer….and a mop.’”

7. Especially in light of being on a) at a different time, b) local versus national, and c) with a co-host, how, if at all, has your show prep routine changed since moving to KTRS? How do you prep for your show -- what are your go-to websites, papers, sources?

Dramatically, yes. And for another reason that you didn’t mention: we have a fantastic producer, Mr. Max Foizey. Max and I worked together very briefly when I first came to St. Louis, and it was a pleasure to learn that I was getting him back for the new show. His instincts are great, and he’s been a very effective facilitator for both Jennifer and me as we navigate the host-co-host thing. All of that means I’m much less in my own head about prep than I used to be. There are lines of communication open three ways before we go on the air, and we get to play with or shut down a topic before we go on. We’re also much more locally focused than the other show for all the obvious reasons, so the Post-Dispatch and the alternative paper, the Riverfront Times, are essentials. Jennifer doesn’t watch TV news anymore for all the same reasons she left it, but I do. Not only are there story ideas there, but I can and do use the personalities as foils regularly. And there are all of the online sources: Fark, WTSP’s weird news section (which I think they may have just shut down, sadly), All Access (of course!). But as always I believe that the best show prep comes from being out in the world and observing it. Anything can be turned into a topic. The sharp hosts watch for them every waking moment.

8. Okay, regarding the current state of affairs, are you optimistic or pessimistic that things will be good for a) the country and b) radio in the next 5-10 years? What's your outlook? Will things get worse or better?

I’m always optimistic. I said when Trump was elected that the system was set up to survive guys like him, and so it has, at least up ’til now. And things there are progressing as one would expect, with him making himself less relevant every day. He’ll be gone soon one way or another, and we’ll shake him off like a bad rash. And if the Democrats retake one or both houses, which there’s every indication they will, his agenda will grind to a halt and he’ll be the most irrelevant President we’ve had since Coolidge. Re-read Douglas Adams’ description of Zaphod Beeblebrox’s job as Galactic President and tell me that’s not exactly where we are now. All he’s doing is forcing the next President to go in and spend his or her first year in office doing the same thing Trump has - ripping out the cables of the previous administration. So we’ll be back where we started. The thing that worries me in the short term is it looks like he’s building a huge bubble with labor, and if I’m right it’s going to cause some deep hurting when it bursts.

I’m similarly optimistic about radio. We’ll be fine as long as we continue to adapt and offer viable entertainment. Consolidation and all of the other influences making it tough on us in the short term shall also pass, and the competition from everything from podcasts to books on tape will only force us to get better at what we do. The best way to ensure your future is to continue to create. Sameness is the enemy. That’s another reason I truly enjoy working for an independent station - there’s no pressure to sound seamless with stations in other markets in the chain. We have the freedom to stand out because we don’t have to live up to anyone else’s idea of what radio is supposed to sound like, and that lets us superserve an audience that is specifically ours. That doesn’t mean consolidation will end next week and stop costing talented people their jobs, but there is indeed a way to survive and show the world it can be done. We just have to keep giving people something valuable that they can’t get anywhere else. Ideas are already in the works for our next project to do just that. We can talk about whether it succeeds or fails four years from now, I guess.

9. I ask you every four years, so WHY STOP NOW?: Favorite movie? Has it changed over time? Best of this year so far?

I still have very little use for superhero movies. Talk about supersaturation. I’d say my top this year so far is "BlacKKKlansman." An incredibly effective story well told.

Favorite ever? Wow. I’m sure my answer changes on that all the time simply because I have so many movies that I love like crazy. I’d say in terms of the sheer number of times I’ve seen them, "Real Genius" may have just overtaken" An American Werewolf In London." The movie that I think of as being the best-made? "Dr. Strangelove." Still though, ultimately I think my favorite is "The Italian Job." The 1967 one with Michael Caine. That Marky-Mark remake was an ill-conceived mess.

Now I’ll have to go back and read my last set of answers to see if it’s any different. Hehheh.

10. And in a similar mode, on Facebook, you're fond of posting non sequitur movie or MST3K quotes, and I suppose it's to see if anyone is like-minded enough to recognize them. Well, then, what's your favorite movie quote?

Hahaha yeah, dead-on for the reason why I do that. It’s very much an “Is There Anybody Out There?” thing - that and to make people laugh.

Hard not to go "Italian Job" with “You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!,” but the one I probably use the most often is from Real Genius. “I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said, ‘I drank what?’”

Thanks again for asking, Perry, this was fun. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m late for my ice-dancing lesson.