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10 Questions with ... Maurice Tunick
November 28, 2006
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NAME:Maurice TunickTITLE:Radio & TV ConsultantBORN:Listening to Barry Gray on WMCARAISED:Queens, NY
BRIEF CAREER SYNOPSIS:
Creator of NBC's Talknet; VP Talk Programming, ABC Radio Networks; Executive Producer, Sally Jessy Raphael television show; VP Programming, WOR-A/New York; Consultant for Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia for the Martha Stewart Channel on Sirius Satellite Radio; Consultant for Redemption Pictures' filming of "The Brave One," scheduled for release in 2007, staring Jodie Foster as a radio talk show host; adjunct in P.R. in Electronic Media at NYU. Other earlier jobs – Producer, NY Yankees Radio Network, Department store Santa Claus when I weighed 125 lbs; lifeguard at summer resort but couldn't swim a stroke.
1. What made you decide to get into radio- why radio?
My parents were big radio listeners. I always remember hearing the radio in our house. I was one of those kids who while in bed at night would be tuning in distant radio stations. I especially loved listening to talk radio at night. Listening to Long John Nebel and Barry Farber late at night and the way they were able to capture my attention and paint pictures with words, made radio an important part of my life. I loved the mystery of it, not knowing what these people looked like. I loved that I felt like I knew these people and they kept me company at night. They helped me form my opinions on things and I always found myself to be well informed. Remember this all occurred when I was very young and most kids were listening to rock and roll. I listened to music radio also because I loved hearing the DJ's and they way they could intro records. I actually built a radio station in my house when I was about 16. I had two turntables, a mic and a mixer and I would cue up and intro records, read commercials, do news casts and play radio. So I'm not sure I ever really decided I would work in radio. I just assumed I would and did.
2. What are you passionate about?
My passion is what I'm working on at that moment. Working in radio has never been a job. I've always loved being a part of what you hear. I love having access to the hosts and being part of their creative process. I've always been passionate about radio. I was in television and away from radio for nearly 10 years but I was still an avid radio listener. When I returned to radio in 2002 I felt like I had hardly missed a beat. Because of my listening habits I was familiar with what was on the air, who was on the air and most of the people working behind the scenes. I'm also passionate about media. I love reading about and keeping up on all that's going on in radio and television. I'm a media news junkie. Thank goodness for the internet. I would go broke if I had to pay for all the publications which provide me the depth of information I can get on the internet everyday. I'm passionate about ratings data. Trying to decipher the good and bad. In TV we'd get overnight ratings and could get data measuring audience minute by minute. Talk about feeding an addiction!
3. You are responsible for developing an incredible array of talk talent over the years, so you know your stuff. In observing the current talk radio landscape, do you think it's better, worse, or the same than it was a decade ago? And do you see opportunities increasing in the business in the coming years?
Clearly there are many more syndicated shows today. There are many more cable shows also. This has resulted in several serious issues affecting the talk radio business.
First, we've pretty much eliminated the farm system in talk radio. There aren't as many local stations doing local shows. Where does someone who wants to do talk radio start? Where do they hone their skills? In the network business where do we find the next generation of talk show hosts. Rush Limbaugh was at KFBK when Ed McLaughlin found him. He got there the old fashioned way: he worked his way up from another market after coming out of a marketing job in baseball. Could that happen today? Not likely. Fewer and fewer stations are taking chances with new people. Fewer stations have a place to test new people. When you're airing syndicated programs the syndicators fill for talent illness and vacations. Fewer and fewer stations have any local talent outside of morning drive and even those are beginning to dry up. Do you know anyone still doing a local overnight show?
Cable channels are facing a similar issue on where to find not only talk show hosts but also talking heads. They're in the same chase as radio stations and the pickings are slim.
I believe the future for talk radio lies with targeting new audiences. There was a time when "talk radio" described stations who devoted their formats to spoken word programming. Today the perception of talk radio is that it is in your face, male dominated conservative talk. Syndicators who try to clear non political talk shows are told these show don't fit their format. So their format isn't just talk. It's political talk much like a music station isn't just a music station, it's a classical station, AAA, Jack, country etc. So the future is targeting to women, younger demos, couples, men without hard politics, etc. Much like music there will be dominant audience generating formats and there will be others offering solid information, entertainment, company and good listening to an underserved audience. A talk interested audience who hasn't found a talk station. Like cable channels we'll need to brand talk like we have music, targeting to specific demos. We're beginning to see that now but it will be a sea change in terms of perception.
4. You've taken people who were not previously radio hosts and developed them into stars. What qualities and attributes do you look for in someone who wants to become a talk host? What does an aspiring host need to succeed?
Ever been to a party where one person is drawing a crowd telling great stories, is knowledgeable, funny, worldly, opinionated, interesting and engaging? And there are others who aren't? The choice here is obvious but it's not all you look for. Talk radio is hard. Ask that of all the TV people who thought it would be easy. It's not. Being interesting, opinioned, informed, worldly, funny etc., for 3 hours a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year takes an extraordinarily gifted person. The ability to engage people and have them want to hear your opinion or advice day after day requires talent, personality and preparation.
5. How do you strike the proper balance between caller-driven talk and personality-driven talk? How important are calls to a good talk show?
I can listen to Michael Savage talk all night about his experience in a Chinese restaurant, but there aren't very many others who can do that and be as compelling and entertaining as Michael. I think the callers are critical to most talk shows. Callers can add energy, entertainment and unpredictability. They also add drama and should be used to showcase the talents of the host. I was Bob Grant's producer/call screener when he first came to NY many years ago. Bob was at his best when callers disagreed with him, annoyed him, had accents he didn't understand, insulted him or when women flirted with him. I would actively search for callers who disagreed. Callers who would piss him off. He'd get angry but it was GREAT radio! Nothing more boring than call after call agreeing with everything the host says.
I also think too many stations don't take the screening process or the screener seriously. The way you screen the calls is the way your radio station sounds. Imagine a music station playing any recording that happens to arrive! It's the same with callers. They need to be choreographed. The best call next, no matter how long someone's been holding. A balance of opinions, gender, location, topics etc., etc. It's a serious job and needs to be taken seriously. How often have we all said to our radio "how did that person get on the air"? How often have you punched the button because of a bad call? I've often had producers explain they put on a call I questioned because it was the only call they had. Why would we turn over the sound of our radio station to some random person who can barely put a sentence together while sitting 3 feet away is someone we spent a lot of time finding, promoting and selling and we're paying a lot of money? Make sense? Not to me! Calls are important as long as we remember they're there to add to the show, not to fill time.
6. What's the most memorable experience you've had in talk radio?
I've had many experiences that are memorable. Many involve being able to cover major stories. I've been a producer during 2 major black outs, during the capture of the Son of Sam, the Gulf War and the invasion of Iraq. I was also very fortunate to be at Cape Canaveral for the launch of our last 2 moon missions, Apollo 15 and 16, as well as for the launch of Skylab. I sat in the broadcast booth next to Phil Rizzuto for a season as producer of the NY Yankees Radio Network. I worked for 5 years inside 30 Rockefeller Plaza, the home of NBC, a thrilling experience everyday I went to work. I've been to the Kentucky Derby, the World Series, the Grand Canyon with Dr. Ruth, in the Goodyear Blimp over NY on the 4th of July, the St. Patrick's Day parade in Dublin, Ireland and visiting radio stations big and small all over the country.
Perhaps the most memorable business experience was about a year after I left NBC for ABC. Sally Jessy Raphael was our big talk star who I hired at NBC. After 5 years her contract was up at NBC and negotiations had stalled. I approached her about joining me at ABC, a long shot to say the least. She was interested but reluctant to start over. I then hired the legendary Tom Snyder to anchor a new 3 hour evening show. Sally's agent called. It appeared we were serious about our plans and they could not reach an agreement across the street. As the radio programming convention in Anaheim was quickly approaching we made an offer, thinking we could make a big splash at the convention if we actually signed her. Just in case, I secretly had fluffy stick on ribbons made, which would attach to every conventioneer's name tag. The ribbon said in big red letters: "Sally's moving to ABC." The night before the convention started we reached an agreement. We had signed Sally. Now the announcement. I immediately booked Sally on a flight to LA so we could have her at the convention for the big announcement, She went to the airport and her agent called NBC to tell them. The then GM of NBC and my good friend Craig Simon was already in Anaheim for the convention. Getting word about Sally he immediately raced to the airport to red eye back to NY for one last attempt to get her to stay. Somewhere over Nebraska, Sally's plane heading west passed Craig's plane racing east. The next day at the announcement, with Sally at my side, I glanced at the crowd and saw my friend Craig. Wrinkled suit and blood shot eyes from flying 6000 miles, coast to coast twice in 12 hours. He gave me one of those "I'll get you back" stares and then I saw his lips move. "Congratulations you $%*&," I'm sure he was quietly saying.
7. Who would you say are your influences, your mentors, the people most responsible for your success?
I've been very lucky. I grew up listening to and working with some of the giants of our format. Barry Gray, Long John Nebel and Bob Grant. I got to work with Grant early on and he taught me so much about what makes a great talk show and how to engage and enrage an audience. Bill Scott was the first morning man when WMCA went all talk. Working with him I learned about getting it right before you put it on the air. He was a real journalist and a perfectionist. I also worked with great managers. Dan Griffin who hired me twice and then Ruth Meyer who brought me to the NBC Radio Network. Two great programmers. It was Dick Penn at NBC who taught me the affiliation process and how to sell programming and then Ed McLaughlin at ABC who made me an offer he wouldn't let me refuse. In television I worked with so many talented people with an energy level, desire to win and creativity I had never experienced before. It changed the way I look at the creative process, the people I hire, work with and what my expectations are. Every step along the way I've been fortunate to work with people I have learned from. I love working with smart people. I'm still learning.
8. What do you do for fun?
This is fun. Working in radio and TV is fun everyday. It's difficult at times. Frustrating, hard, demanding and ulcer inducing, but I still think it's more fun than most anything else I can think of.
9. Fill in the blank: I can't make it through the day without _____________.
...looking at my son and thinking about what's really important.
10. What's the best advice you've ever gotten? The worst?
Best. "Take the job at ABC" when I was reluctant to leave NBC and all the friends I had there.
Worst. Still reeling. Tell you another time.
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