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10 Questions with ... Walter Sabo
September 1, 2009
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NAME:Walter SaboTITLE:ChairmanBORN:Orange, NJRAISED:Maplewood, NJ
NOTE:
We're marking the tenth anniversary of "10 Questions With..." in September 2009, and we'll be occasionally be visiting with some of the interview subjects from 1999 to mark the occasion. Since the first interview, Walter Sabo has continues to serve as a consultant and has formed Hitviews, a company that provides advertisers with Internet videos created by the minds behind many of the most popular viral videos online. Also, full disclosure: the editor has worked with Mr. Sabo in the past.
BRIEF CAREER SYNOPSIS:
EVP FM Radio for NBC, VP GM ABC Radio Networks. Several management jobs at New York City Radio stations before that. Served as a consultant to the RKO Radio stations exclusively for 8 years. During that time, many of the stations had their highest ratings ever.At NBC, built the team that invented Adult Contemporary Radio. As a consultant, have worked with Sirius Satellite Radio for 8 years, Press Broadcasting, Clear Channel, CBS, Gannett, Media America, Paxson, Fred Silverman Productions, Katz syndication, Parade magazine, Pegasus Communications, and many others.
1. What do you see the next three-to-five years being like for talk radio? Will there be growth again? Will local talkers continue to disappear? Are you optimistic or not?
Talk radio is the original reality media. As long as hosts take live calls, the medium will grow. The thrill of a live call is unique in media. It's something radio does spectacularly well -- it's very sad to watch a TV show take phone calls, isn't it? There is no such thing as a "best of" call in talk show. All repeats are horrible compared with a live show. Growth is dependent on entertaining hosts taking live calls. The more calls you take, the more you'll get. The shorter the calls, the younger the callers will be. Science.
2. You created Hitviews a few years ago to link online web video stars with advertisers wanting to reach customers through online video. The creative forces behind the vides producers and talent who started in that medium; they didn't have any "old media" perceptions to unlearn. Is there a way to transfer skills from producing "old media" like radio to the new media? If so, what skills would be transferrable? Or is that just not in the cards; does the Internet require a fresh mindset formed by growing up with the medium?
It's about the ability tell a story and make a show. When you watch online videos made by webstars, people who do it because they love to, do not be fooled into thinking it is a casually made product. It is a well prepared, precise process mastered by those creators.Each medium creates its own stars. Stars tend to be discrete to a medium. Rarely does one star transfer to another medium. Julia Roberts will sell $25M in movie tickets but can't fill a 300 seat Broadway house. You know what usually happens when someone who is not a "radio dog" tries to do a radio show even if they have been a hit as a stand up comic or TV personality -- different skills. The internet requires a different set of skills to make online videos that attract millions and millions of views, which is why 99% of TV video gets little viewership online. Your computer is not a TV.
3. What are the biggest mistakes radio management and programmers are making as the industry tries to weather the recession? What should they be doing to bolster their business and their content through the rough patch? And how much of the industry's trouble is a function of advertising dollars shrinking in general rather than any problems intrinsic to the radio product itself?
Focus on the facts. The facts are that the programming is in as much demand as ever. 1 out of 5 Americans eat at McDonald's today. More than 2 out of 3 will listen to the radio. So the place to cut and economize and review and renew is where there is trouble -- SALES. The place to invest and nurture is where there is success -- PROGRAMMING. That's just Business 100. Not even 101. 100.
4. New Jersey 101.5, which you recently left as consultant after 19 years, was a groundbreaking station in many ways, yet the format -- in its style of talk and aggressive local focus -- hasn't been duplicated elsewhere, except for a few abortive attempts that didn't get much time to gain traction. Why do you think the 101.5 format wasn't widely embraced? What was the resistance point? And can it still work elsewhere?
No, it can't work elsewhere, because like every single station I've ever been part of creating, it was baked from scratch at a particular moment in time for a particular location. I wouldn't create it today the way we did 19 years ago -- it would sound quite different if it was born today. That's the secret of every truly GREAT radio station, it can't be duplicated. But I can make one that has identical success, right now, for you.
5. Three years ago, you called the PPM a vast improvement over the diary system. After a few years of the PPM in action, do you still feel the same way? Has there been anything in the PPM results that surprised you? Are there any things -- formatics, for example, or dayparting -- that you would change based on what you see in the PPMs?
The PPM is a spectacular improvement over asking people to keep notes in the shower or while driving at 60 miles per hour. The only surprise is the surprise some of my colleagues have had after years of ignoring common sense. Why are a few radio execs surprised that there was no single peak point of tune-in during the hour?? Didn't that stop after Fibber McGee and Molly went off radio? There is also no such thing as a PPM "format."
6. What radio are YOU listening to these days?
Howard Stern. Sirius/XM, with Steve Blatter and Jeremy Coleman in charge, is wonderful radio. I listen to 1010 WINS -- the greatest AM radio station in America. Terry Wogan on BBC Radio 2; also Annie Nightingale and Russell Brand.7. Of what in your career are you most proud? (besides Ultimate Frisbee)
Blind fearlesslness. Being able to persuade owners like Bob McAllan to try new formats. I never want to say to the grandkids, "I took a feed." I've tried new things. I do it every day. And that doesn't mean playing obscure album tracks. It means whole new formats, entire new ways to market and program. I'm proud of the spectacular failures and successes.
8. There's been some movement on FM talk in the last year, especially with sports formats, some of which are launching with mostly local hosts. As perhaps the first major proponent of putting spoken word programming on FM, make your pitch: Why should a company put a talk station on an FM frequency? Should they be thinking about more than one in a market? And, since it's the most frequently voiced resistance point I hear, if they move an AM talk station to FM, what should they do with the AM side?
My background is 100% business not arts and crafts. You will make more money with talk on FM than Music on FM. That's why I have promoted talk on FM as a profit machine. Do you think an FM in TRENTON could gross almost $30M doing music? No way. There are more sales, marketing and success stories that will come from any FM talk station than any FM Music station. Without investigation, too many operators assume that talk costs more or takes a long time compared with music and as a former Division chief at ABC and NBC let me assure you that is not true.
Why would you "move" an AM station to FM? That goes against common sense. Leave the AM where it is. START a new station on FM. Few seem to realize that the very tools you use to target an FM Music station can be applied successfully to targeting an FM talk station to reach ANY DEMO YOU WANT. So use the AM to reach people over 65 as most are doing so well now. And use FM to reach any other demo you select. I'll show you how.
9. Fill in the blank: I can't make it through the day without _____________.
...a kiss from my wife, and my 4 and 6 year old daughters.
10. What's the best advice you've ever gotten? The worst?
The best was from Ed McLaughlin, "Let them find out how smart you are." Meaning... don't tell them how smart you are.The worst: I've blocked it.
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