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Dave Shakes
November 1, 2016
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Dave Shakes is a successful major-market radio vet now making an impact primarily in small markets for Results Radio. Yet while the audience reach may be different, the fundamentals of successful radio are largely them - with the exception of the online and digital revolution. Here, Shakes delves into how he uses his Old School smarts on the Brave New World of radio.
After so many years programing the likes of B96/Chicago and KMEL and K101/San Francisco, you opted for consulting with Alan Burns. What made you decide to make that move?
I had moved every few years building my career. Along the way, I leapt from Eugene, OR to Chicago by way of WTIC-FM/Hartford in less than three years. Around 1996, Shelley and I had a child -- our only child, Miranda -- and I did not want to uproot and roam the country with her every few years. Alan said if I was successful at consulting, I would be able to live where I wanted, and raise her in the same house. I was ultimately able to do that; she grew up in San Ramon, CA all the way until she went off for college, so mission accomplished.
Alan had consulted me at B96, and I liked how he laid out a game plan and liked the idea of learning how to do that for other clients. I worked with Alan, Donna, and Jeff (Johnson) through 2001 and my portfolio included start-ups like Mod ACs KMXB/Las Vegas, KZZO/Sacramento, Spanish Top 40 with KSSE/Los Angeles, the first "Now" with Emmis WNOU/Indianapolis, and a fun chapter working with Jerry Ryan and his (then) wild idea to go All-Christmas on Thanksgiving weekend at KESZ/Phoenix in 1996. There were lots of different cities and situations, and puzzles to solve. The one thing the best of these stations had in common was their focus on delighting listeners, and not worrying about industry conventional thinking.
In 1998, you signed on as a partner with Results Radio. What about this company enticed you?
At the time, Jon Coleman asked me to speak at a Modern AC seminar and introduced me to Jack Fritz and Ron Castro. They asked me if I could work with their newly acquired Modern AC station, KMHX/Santa Rosa, which is nearby in Sonoma County. I didn't have any Bay Area clients at the time, so even though they would be my smallest market client, it was a short drive. I said, "Sure, why not?" Well that decision led to a great business relationship and friendship with them. Soon after, with Alan's blessing, I was offered an opportunity to throw my hat in with them and we got the Chico, Redding, and Yuba-Sutter clusters, all within driving distance in Northern California. Later a move-in from Yuba with a new tower site became KCCL/Sacramento. There are 13 stations in all. The Redding cluster included KEWB, where I had once worked as a baby DJ, and returning there as an owner was special indeed.
You returned to CBS Radio in 2012 working in Phoenix until 2015. Why did you decide to go back to Results Radio?
I greatly appreciate the opportunity that Greg Strassell and Tim Pohlman gave me. I worked with so many tremendous people at CBS Radio/Phoenix and we did some great radio. In retrospect, it looks like sabbatical, but I moved the whole household out there and went into that job with full commitment to be a CBS lifer. After the late spring 2015 lay off, and about a month later my dad and stepmom in Palo Alto began to experience serious health issues. I realized I needed to be based in the Bay Area again for family reasons, and that being the case, Results Radio would be my first choice if there could be a new role for me. I talked to Jack, and he came up with a great plan, and I am grateful to have this opportunity to continue the growth with these stations and staff.
Results has a wide range of outstanding programming leaders like Rico Garcia, Cagle, Eric White, and our new Chico OM, Dan Thomas. Northern California's Rock radio legend Ron Woodward programs our Classic Rock stations. We have impactful air talents like Billy & Patrick, and Dave & Briggs who have performed #1 morning shows in their markets for years. We have sales pros who have decades of relationships in the community. All the stations are staffed with people who care about the impact of their work on their communities.
How big a difference is there between major-market radio and smaller-market radio?
Certainly, one difference is less reliance on national and regional agency transactional dollars. There's accountability with local main street business owners who want to see growth occur after their marketing investment. Either it worked or it didn't work, and they get to decide. Doing good for the community, being a good reliable partner ... those are desirable traits in the majors, but essential for the minors. I will say that when you do a NTR event and you have a full house, exceeded your goals, and have a lot of happy listeners, clients, and staff, then there is no difference in market size. Or when you walk into a business and they are playing your station for their customers, it's just as big a thrill.
How does being so close to street impact your stations' programming?
On our best days, we're listening to the small talk and the restaurant conversations, and eavesdropping on Facebook posts, and connecting and reflecting that stuff on the air. I remember Scott Shannon said, "When you're in a small market, sound big, and in a big market, sound small." Well, we do invest in top-quality big voices and imaging. But the greater challenge every day is to find the time to observe the small things in life around town and then remember to get that stuff on the air. Regardless of market size, staff commutes to work on the same streets every day, and there's still a challenge for a local manager to experience the viewpoint of the target listener in a zip code you may not live in yourself. It's a similar challenge whether you're in Chicago or Chico.
Results has one PPM station in Sacramento and a dozen or so diary-market stations. Doesn't that demand totally different ways to program?
I had a mentor who taught me there is a difference between playing the "radio game" and the "ratings game." It's not enough to do only great radio. You must create opportunity for the ratings participant to accurately report your station as well. Certainly, in a diary market, you're paying a lot of attention to memory and recall, and in PPM you're thinking about getting five minutes of metered listening in this quarter-hour. One thing in common is the power of big cume. Stations with big cumes get rewarded in the ratings game more often than stations with small cumes. We have mass-appeal formats: Top 40, Rock, Country, Classic Hits and Sports. Both methodologies reward brands that cause a mass of listeners to consume them, this same time, tomorrow.
Is the digital impact on a radio station greater in a market like Sacramento than it is in the smaller-market stations?
Raw numbers are bigger in Sacramento than Redding, but the percentages are the same -- same open rates, same lengths of visit, same constant need to create more unique visits. We're always on the hunt for new best practices like anyone. These Results stations have excellent digital tools. We've created a Results Digital sales division, and our own web-based research division. We're equipped to offer state-of-the-art solutions for businesses in the north state.
How much of what you learned in the major markets back in the '90s still pertain to today?
Much is the same, much is different. As far as content goes, it's the same -- listeners are still looking to be informed or entertained. Maybe faster than ever. And we're still trying to get as many ears as we can to hear advertiser messages. But all the experience in the world means very little when it comes to being great at using new tools. The story-telling itself gains from experience, but these new tools to tell the story keep evolving. I guess I have always been and continue to be curious about people, and love to help talent put on a show. Move 'em. Make 'em laugh, make 'em cry, poke 'em in the eye ... whatever you do, just move them.
I would imagine small-market stations like yours can be seen as the last remaining vestiges of a radio "talent pool." What's your take on finding and developing new talent?
It is very hard to find "A" and "B" talent, veteran or rookie. So like every broadcaster, we have to do a blend of growing our own talent, and staying vigilant to recruit prospects outside of the markets. We have a countless number of employees who have advanced within Results Radio and have worked longer for us than any other company. That's gratifying. Providing opportunity for people to grow their skill sets is really job number one, and a key mission for me in the realm of strategic development.
What's your outlook for radio's future?
The future gets better and better as advertisers learn these lessons over and over, that radio works. Effective messages get results if schedules have reach and frequency. I do wish there were more actual radio receivers for sale in electronics departments; 100% of households need to have radios. We need sexy hardware on sale at retail.
Isn't NextRadio and the smartphone the transistor radio for the new millennium?
Maybe as it evolves, but it's not a perfect solution today -- speaking for myself -- because of the need to have earbuds as an antenna. A few years ago I bought the HTC One just so I could consume NextRadio and understand it. Now I have a Samsung S7 Edge. I plug in the earbuds to be an antenna but I don't use them to listen, because I prefer to listen to radio in open air, over a speaker. In that way, NextRadio is not as simple as turning on a stand-alone radio with an integrated on/off volume knob. But I will say the NextRadio display is beautiful and exciting to play with. Of course I really like the idea that all those cellphones could double as radio receivers. This is earthquake country, and all these people need radios and don't know it yet.
Do you see Results Radio getting bigger as a group?
I absolutely see us growing, and creating more opportunities for our people. Plans are in the works.
And what about your future?
I started as an intern in 1980, writing the hourly weather copy for the jocks at RKO's KFRC-A/San Francisco, which was the greatest Top 40 station of all time. That hallway vibe is the bar to which I have always aspired to reach. I grew up in the Bay Area with neighbor kids who later created Silicon Valley. Now I'm living in the future; these times are like the science fiction I read when I was a kid. Working with this business of radio, marketing and advertising is still a ton of fun and there's a lot more of it yet ahead. So yes, I'm thrilled to go to work every day with the people at Results Radio in beautiful Northern California.
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