Bob Becker & Jenny Reader

Bob Becker grew up in the DIY indie rock scene in, literally starting out by selling 7-inch singles for his friends in local bands at the turn of the '90s. Eventually, he did well enough to start his own label, Fearless Records, in 1994. He grew the label slowly, capitalizing on the success of bands like At The Drive-In and most importantly, Plain White T's, which established a solid foundation for the label. Through it all, Fearless has remained largely a guitar-based rock label that would eventually be acquired by Concord and more recently, inheriting Razor & Tie's stable of rock talent. Here, he talks about surviving and prospering with rock in a rhythmic/electronic-heavy music climate. Joining him is VP/Marketing & Project Management Jenny Reader, who offers more insight into the Razor & Tie partnership.

Legend has it you went from selling tacos to starting your own indie label. True? And what made you decide to start your own label?

That "selling tacos" thing just showed up on Wikipedia; there's no truth to that. I do eat a lot of tacos, but whoever started that must have misunderstood. I started when I went to shows and put out a couple of seven-inches for some local bands. I set up a booth to sell them at their shows, afterwards I'd go to the underground record stores like Rhino and Ichabod's and put them on consignment.

It started very locally, then I tried to sell records nationally through mail order by talking them up in fanzines. I started to get a lot of letters from people out of state. They were ordering the seven-inches solely based on my description. We didn't have the Net, mp3s or YouTube, so people bought it based on a description or review in Flipside magazine. It was all very DIY.

I started to get more of a national presence after signing bands from other states who toured a lot. The local California bands didn't really tour much, so I started to deal with bands from out of state, who spent a lot of time on the road. That made their records more promotable, which helped us expand the label presence.

Which begs the question: How did you find the out-of-state bands? Did you travel to see them? They send you demos?

A really good friend -- who I sold a couple seven-inches for -- found my first out-of-state band for me. He called me late one night and told me about this band out of New Jersey called Bigwig. They opened up for his band and blew him away. He asked me to sign them so he could take them on tour with his band. I said sure, so that one was real easy. After that, it was just networking. My first big success was At The Drive-In. Blaze James wrote for Flipside magazine, whose staff was really into the band. They even put out one of their records on their Flipside label. He told me to come check them out. They were great and when Flipside ended its label, signing the band was a no-brainer. At The Drive-In worked their ass off and toured constantly. It's really good for a label to have a band like that.

At The Drive-In sold a lot of records for us but that was early on. The business was still questionable, so I had to find some more bands. That led me to Plain White T's, which just blew up. Their success put me in a financial situation where I finally had stability with this; at that point I knew this was going to work. Their success opened a lot of doors for us to more artists who saw what we did with Plain White T's.

Were you surprised at how well the Plain White T's did?

I would like to take credit, but the band and I included "Delilah" -- which was the only acoustic song on the record -- as a closer track, almost like bonus track. The rest of the album was more rock guitar/drums, but that song totally raised its hand on its own. Fans at their shows would yell it out, and once they did start playing it, the whole crowd would sing the entire song. Girls cried when they played it. It took a life of its own, which the band and I didn't see coming.

Did that success change the way you ran the label?

Not really. The problem was as a straight indie label, we had no promo department, so it was always very hard to work radio. So I didn't suddenly think we could take a bunch of our stuff and just get it on the radio. We still had to sign bands we could promote online and through touring. What did happen is that we did a deal with ADA, who had upstreaming rights. They had a kneejerk reaction and started to grab my other bands that really didn't belong on the majors. It was kind of a bummer. A band that sold 100,000 was considered a lot for us, but it wasn't that attractive to a major. Back then, selling 100,000 wasn't what a major label would call a success - especially for bands that weren't very accessible to the mainstream. It was a rough time until I got out of that deal.

Even now, I don't sign a band and automatically go for radio hits. That's not what we do; maybe I should start doing that, I don't know. We look at the overall big picture of a band, how they are live and their work ethic. Do they have something we feel our fans will like? Fearless is kind of in a Warped tour scene - rock, punk and hardcore - and that's been by design. That's a space we feel we can be successful in. Trying to get pop bands on the radio is out of our wheelhouse.

That being said, now that we've been acquired by Concord, we have more resources. We get to use their radio promotion staff. We can plan on expanding a bit. In the past, we originally had Portugal. The Man, who went to Atlantic where their story was rewritten. But I don't feel we were in a place back then to give them much more than a good place to start. We were not in a position to get them to #1 from a radio standpoint. Now with Concord's resources behind us, we can see the next Portugal though without having it move to a major. Fearless now has more upside potential for bands.

How has the online/digital era impacted the bands you sign, market and promote?

I still believe it all comes down to having good content and good people. Regardless of the platform, you need to have something people can connect with. I tried not to worry about the platform, how it's monetized and whatnot. That's another reason why I'm happy I did the deal with Concord; I can leave that stuff to them. If they're in charge of figuring out how to monetize and distribute things, that allows me to concentrate more on content, which is why I got into this business in the first place. I didn't get into it to figure out how to sell it, be it a file, a download, a stream or whatever. I didn't sign up for that stuff and I don't have control of it, either, so what's the point of worrying about it? I just want to create content that people care about.

Early on, when the majors were worrying about Napster and illegal downloading, we were like, "Hell, yeah! Let's put it up and get it out there." We gave out songs for free knowing that if people liked it, they'd buy it and go to their shows. Get our stuff out there first and figure out monetization later.

Is finding quality content, doing A&R, any different today than when you first started Fearless?

There's a variety of music out there, and rock genres come and go and come back again. I still get stuff that sounds like garage punk bands, some that sound like New York hardcore bands, and others who sound like the '80s bands I grew up a fan of. There's a lot of '80s new wave/alternative music again. I hear that influence constantly in new pop artists; the genres just come back around in different, updated versions

I know that a lot of the popular stuff now is rhythmic pop, and hip-hop is huge. I do want to expand our sound a bit, maybe find something with elements of hop-hop, who knows, but whatever it is, it has to be something interesting. For all I know, maybe things change again and evolve back into guitars and drums.

You just consummated the Razor & Tie partnership. How do you see that working out?

We look at it as an opportunity to expand on what Fearless has done. We get to open a New York office; Razor & Tie has a studio and office in New York on Sullivan Avenue. We've kept the Razor & Tie staff, who'll help us work Fearless there. It's a real good expansion opportunity; we can put out new releases without completely overextending our brand. It's great to have another label to put out records and have more people to work them. We're very excited about it.

Jenny, how did you get into this business - what about Fearless attracted you to this position?

I started as a writer for music television and ended up running the U.K. office of Victory Records before making the jump to Fearless and the U.S. nine years ago. I've morphed into different positions since then -- initially in publicity, then project management and now overseeing all marketing campaigns, staff, and larger label initiatives. I thrive in an environment where I'm working on many things simultaneously as my creativity for one project sparks ideas for another, as well as direct the creative vision and marketing surrounding artists campaigns, and connecting people, collaborating on opportunities. Also, being one of the only females operating at a senior label among our direct indie competitors has allowed me to set an example for ladies in the rock industry, and help inspire them to carve their own path in a traditionally male-dominated industry and genre. I'm honored to be working with some amazing, talented females at all levels within Concord and Fearless, and be helping them excel in whatever capacity I can. You can't be what you can't see, and I take that responsibility to lead the charge seriously.

How did the deal for Razor & Tie come about?

At the start of the year, R&T was fully sold to Concord Music, of which we are a part. We've admired their strength within the radio world, and as the closest to rock brethren within Concord's frontline labels, we had already been collaborating on marketing initiatives together. When the opportunity arose to work with some of the rock-leaning R&T artists, we jumped at it. It felt like a natural move that would allow us to expand our footprint in the rock genre, but more importantly apply the creative grassroots marketing synonymous with Fearless to bands that traditionally haven't been driven by lifestyle and be able to expose them to new audiences.

How will you integrate their talent into your release schedule?

It starts with what phase of their current album cycle each band is in -- as Razor & Tie is operating as an imprint of Fearless; the full staff is working both labels' acts, and we are acutely aware of making sure each has the space in the schedule and support they need. Redefining what the next phase of both labels' branding following the transition has been an exciting and healthy process. We've approached each band individually and the labels as a whole to determine our voice and audience, and make sure we are speaking to them, as well as finding like-minded fans we haven't reached yet.

What kind of opportunities you see happening with this influx of talent?

There have been many great developments since we formed our label alliance. One of my biggest initial items has been to re-evaluate the visual brand and positioning of each band and isolate opportunities for growth. Starset, in particular, has been a huge priority for us; they are an incredible and unique act that has had great success, but the potential for so much more in multiple genres. I'm immensely respectful of what they've already created, and passionate about helping them expand into new audiences. I'm excited we've been able to see them with fresh eyes and move them on to Fearless.

We also have the opportunity to build on the story of a killer band like Red Sun Rising leading the charge on our Razor & Tie acts, and heading to the top five on the Active Rock chart with their single, "Deathwish," employing our marketing to connect their success at radio and festivals with streaming and build a dedicated fan base. Aligned with the huge talent, stunning visuals and creative marketing, bands on the Fearless side -- such as Underoath -- have exploded this spring with one of the best rock albums in years, and breakout act I Prevail, who has sold almost 400,000 copies worldwide of their immense debut album with no signs of stopping as we gear up for album two. It's an exciting time.

Bob, how have you marketing efforts changes as the industry transforms from a sales economy to a streaming one?

The music industry is constantly evolving, but as we are in the midst of one of the more seismic shifts shaping our business, it's about addressing it with open eyes and working creatively. It's not all about that big first week anymore; the advent of streaming means it's about the long game, allowing for more regular content to continually feed fresh music and point back to albums, stagger marketing to do the same, and appreciate how the algorithms work. While I understand it's not initially as lucrative nor as straight forward as garnering actual sales, the long-term possibilities for music discovery and ongoing revenue beyond the traditional album cycle are an exciting prospect once you readdress plans and expectations accordingly. Rock has definitely been slow to catch up to other genres that are already hugely successful catering heavily to the medium, such as hip-hop, but I'd like to believe we are addressing marketing for the platforms innovatively. Some may be depressed by the current climate, but we've always been a company that can pivot quickly, think smartly and thrive when the industry traditionally has been declining. Now is no different.

What has been the impact of all these new digital platforms have had on your marketing efforts?

Fearless has always prided itself on its digital marketing, and in recent years we have doubled down on visual content and its importance within the digital sphere, with our killer in house creative team that intersects with our digital department. Most of it is an ongoing experiment as things evolve so fast. Luckily we have a team of creative thinkers who embrace the possibilities of the platforms and how we can manipulate some of the technology to our advantage. With a genre not traditionally favored by a lot of media outlets, we've grown accustomed to creating opportunities rather than waiting for them to present themselves. It's that scrappy spirit of an OC punk label born from selling 7"s at local shows that allows us to fight for our space and push the boundaries ourselves without waiting for someone to do it for us. Getting used to the word "no" doesn't mean you accept it; you just find other paths to get to where you want to be.

What are the main challenges you face as a niche label in a mainstream corporate business world?

Not accepting that we are a niche label is a good start! And with the advent of streaming, niches have become ever more important. Musical tastes are cyclical. Genres live simultaneously in fans playlists, so while some of the fanatical nature of living and breathing one style of music may have faded, the opportunity to cross into other areas is more attainable. Rock was once mainstream, and with the current wave of new and established acts finally bringing some new energy and edge back to the genre, it will be again. In the meantime, we have the opportunity to expand the roster into different areas, and R&D things without the glare of the spotlight, pushing the acts that can transcend to that next level, and spending time developing the ones with potential to get there -- which is all-important. The flowers with the biggest blooms all start underground, and luckily that's a space we are very familiar with.

As someone who grew up with and started a label that featured guitar-based rock, is it a bigger challenge for Fearless to succeed in a rhythmic/EDM/hip-hop-based mainstream, or do you see an advantage of working what is now a niche music genre?

True, I personally like guitar and drums, especially in live music, and it's tricky because in some sense, the majors aren't not really doing much of this. This allows us the ability to not have to compete with them for talent, which is great. There was a time when they were going after a lot of bands we wanted - and if they went after them, they usually got them. From that standpoint, it's great, but from another standpoint, if the Green Days, Offsprings and Blink 182s didn't get big through the radio, then our world wouldn't have seen the growth it had. I have to give credit to the majors and radio for that. It's nice to have majors being able to break some of these bands in a much bigger way; that just builds the overall audience.

I understand where radio is, where there's not a lot of guitar/drums music because the younger audience is definitely attracted to rhythmic and EDM stuff. I do like some of that; we're actually looking at a band from that world -- that still have guitars, too. Our goal is to be more well-rounded ... not like a major label size-wise, but maybe more well-rounded sound-wise. That's how we're looking to expand, go a bit outside our world.

After all this time, have you set a goal for Fearless' future? Do you want to see the label grow into something along the lines of A&M and Geffen in their heyday?

I ask bands a question like that all the time, right when we're about to sign them, so you kinda turned the tables on me, dude ... and I appreciate that. I know this may be the wrong thing to do, but I try to live in the moment, look at the here and now, and try not to think too far ahead. I do like to plan and be strategic, which is important, but I always try not to get too ahead of myself. I'm happy to be living in the moment. Today's work is important and I'm going to enjoy the ride instead of constantly looking around the curve.

As far as other labels go, I definitely admire Epitaph, which came up at the same time as us. I admire them and I like how they expanded with Anti, their own label, so they're on a bigger scale. I'm super-impressed with them, and I thought A&M was a really great label in its day. But again, I just want to exist and continue doing what we're doing. Today, we have certain freedoms; we have don't have a bunch of restrictions and boundaries, so I can enjoy it more. The first 10 to 15 years, I didn't enjoy the business that much. It was such a grind; I was stressed out whether I could make payroll. Happily, we don't have to worry about that. We have a solid business; we can take care of our employees and artists - and to me, that's success.