Brett Gurewitz

Brett Gurewitz was just one of a slew of San Fernando Valley kids who formed a garage punk band at the turn of the 1980s and came up with the scratch to put out their own 7-inch record. He started Epitaph Records essentially out of a PO Box to collect money from the sales of those records. Now only did his band, Bad Religion, become fairly popular, but he signed L7 to his label and not long after that, NOFX, Pennywise, Rancid and Offspring. At around the time Bad Religion signed to Atlantic Records, Gurewitz decided to stay on at Epitaph - and then Offspring soon became a multi-Platinum phenomenon. As the '90s Alternative boom faded away, Bad Religion would resign with Epitaph, but Gurewitz would limit his participation to songwriting and producing. More recently, Epitaph has been rejuvenated by the likes of the The Alkaline Trio, Parkway Drive and the Interrupters, whose release, "She's Kerosene," has been embraced by Alternative radio. Here, Gurewitz describes the long, strange trip to ... selflessness?

Legend has it that you started Epitaph Records just to sell records of your band, Bad Religion. Did you pitch the band to the indie labels of the time - Slash, SST and Frontier, among others?

That is true ... you're going back into the mists of time. I'm aging myself, but when we put out the first Bad Religion seven-inch, we never thought about getting signed. We were high school kids who didn't even know what it meant to send a demo to a label. Keep in mind, there was no Google in 1980. Teens like us were not versed in the music industry. We were just a garage band that decided to put out 7-inch records.

So when did you get serious about running a label?

Actually, I've never ever really gotten serious. But to answer your question, it started getting real in the late '80s, when I was doing a bunch of different things. I also had a recording studio, where we did recordings for a lot of underground bands. I also had a day job at a record distributor. My girlfriend, Suzy Shaw, worked at Bomp Records, which she co-owned with her ex-husband Greg. I was doing everything to avoid a square job; I was really putting in long hours in the recording studio, but by the late '80s, a few of our records started to sell a lot. L7, Bad Religion and NoFX sold a lot of records in the late '80s. At that time, I thought the label might actually have some sort of longevity.

So where did Bad Religion fit in this mix?

It didn't until the band got real popular. We put out seven records from 1987-1994; very few bands were that prolific. In 1993, we put out Recipe For Hate, which shipped 100,000 records in its first week - and eventually sold a lot more than that. Around that time, Atlantic came around and signed the band. Meanwhile, at around the same time, the Offspring started to get big, as did Pennywise. While all that was going on, Bad Religion's first record on Atlantic, Stranger Than Fiction, became our biggest record ... it was our only Gold record in America. This while Epitaph really came into its own; that year Rancid had a Gold and Platinum album, on top of Offspring and NoFx coming out of nowhere. This little DIY company suddenly became the real deal.

Were you riding the Alternative wave ... or were you starting it?

In terms of national radio, KROQ started it all. But I wouldn't call it riding the wave; it was bit of a wave machine for ourselves. When it just started to take off, we had five employees. Two weeks later, we had about 25.

A lot of successful indie labels of that time eventually secured distribution deals with majors. What about Epitaph?

First of all, it was weird to realize that suddenly all these major labels came a'courting, all interested in buying Epitaph. That was the first thing I had to wrap my head around, but I decided not to sell the company. In terms of did I think that maybe I could turn Epitaph into a major label ... I don't know. It was a heady time, and I definitely thought that Epitaph could be some kind of embryonic Atlantic, Geffen or A&M. All those labels started as indies and became majors. But to be honest, when you look at indies such as Beggars Group, Subpop and Epitaph today, we're not so different than majors anymore. Sure, they're bigger, been around longer and have a bigger catalog, but in terms of how records sell in the first week of an album cycle, there's not as big a difference as there used to be. Indies and majors pay similar sized advances, although indies usually have more artist-friendly deals. The biggest difference is that my company -- and by and large, most indies - have a musical point of view. You have punk indies, Hip-Hop indies and so on. Majors are more pop focused, but other than that, there are fewer differences with indies, thanks in part to streaming.

Yet Epitaph launched its own spin-off labels such as Anti. What was the motive behind that?

The thinking behind that was, at the time, Epitaph was very focused on SoCal punk bands. Oh, we had a band or two from Sweden and New York, but for the most part, we focused on melodic hardcore punk from California. But I didn't want to be limited to doing only that. So I started Anti as a label for music other than punk. That was the whole point. We were always the same company; it's not like Anti was in a new building with a separate staff. You could call the labels different brands with separate, editorial points of view.

How has Epitaph and its other labels dealt with the ebb and flow of rock music's popularity?

We've been doing it for so many epochs now, we just get used to the pendulum swinging back and forth. It happened in the '80s and early '90s. Before Nirvana, Offspring and Green Day hit, radio was supporting Alternative that was light, poppy and synth-pop based. They were playing a bunch of British synth bands, then Nirvana came around and suddenly it's rock and roll again. The pendulum goes back and forth, which I think is awesome because I like all kinds of music.

Describe your attitude towards radio ... is it a love/hate kind of thing, depending on if they play your music?

I've always loved radio; radio just hasn't always loved us. But what could be better than getting free music for everybody, coming through the airwaves? We do our best to sign great artists; some make radio-friendly music; some don't. To what radio's going to sound like, say, four years from now, I don't think about radio like that. I'm signing artists who can make killer records on their own -- and once in a while, their creativity lines up with what's happening at radio, which turns it into a pretty big hit. That's what's going on now with the Interrupters.

Could you tell from the get-go that "She's Kerosene" was right for Alternative radio?

My good friend Tim Armstrong, the creative genius behind Rancid, brought the band to me and said he wanted to sign them to his Hellcat Records. They had the talent and there's always a lane on the radio for a ska or reggae hit every year. And there's not that many lanes. I will tell you that on this particular record, Tim had me down to his studio to play me a bunch of their new songs; he had recorded 28 songs. I told to just play me the best ones. So he sat me down behind a desk and played a few. I've always been pretty good at this, and when I heard "Kerosene," I said, "That's the hit." I'm not making this up; they said "Really?" "It sounds like a hit to me." And it turns out it was. It's very gratifying to have a special kind of skill set -your skin follicles start to vibrate when you hear something special.

How has streaming impacted Epitaph Records?

Streaming has, more than anything else, contributed to the renaissance that Epitaph is experiencing right now. It has evened the playing field for indies, artists and major labels. No matter how big or small you are, if the song is good, it has a chance to be heard by everyone in the world through the smartphones in their pockets. That is fucking killer. I love that sometimes a song will take off out of the blue on streaming, which gives you something to sell the song at radio. Everything is positive for fans and even artists, who may not be getting much royalties now, but are at least getting heard and bettering their chances to do well on the road.

I know some people look at this and think labels are not needed any more. Not true! Nobody goes out there and achieves greatness on their own. Every artist benefits from a team behind them. And labels can provide expertise, financing and a safety net. They can take you from one level of success to another.

Quick aside regarding your band, Bad Religion. You just put out a song/video called "The Kids Are Alt-Right." Judging by some of the comments on the YouTube page, it seems that some people think you're seriously alt-right, while others don't. Did you mean to create such a polarizing song?

I noticed that there's a lot of trolls in the alt-right community, particularly the neo-conservative community. I think it struck a nerve with trolls pretending not to get it, who then post ridiculous comments. Striking a nerve is a good thing. I'm trying to stir things up a bit, but I'm a bit dismayed that more punk bands haven't come out and done more protest songs. I'm thinking of doing an entire album of protest songs; actually I'm writing half of the songs on the new album. I don't know if any of my colleagues read this, but if you do, let's get out there and not be afraid to express an opinion. We need great protest songs; I'm not not saying mine is great, but at least I'm expressing myself.

Exactly how involved are you with the band nowadays? Will you tour with them?

Right now, I'm involved more than usual. I'm trying to write a new album and though there will be a live tour, I haven't toured with the band since the late '90s, so I'm not active in that respect. Every few years, when we decide to do a new album, I'll get real involved in the writing and producing. My full-time job is Epitaph. I wake up at 5:30 am to do a half-hour of songwriting, then go to the office, go home, eat dinner, spend some time with the kids, squeeze another hour of songwriting, then go to bed. It doesn't sound very punk, does it? It's a sad story!

So do you still have any goals or challenges you'd like to accomplish? Any five-year plans?

I don't have a five-year goal; I usually set medium-term goals of around three years at a time. I organize and plan these medium-term goals in my business and life. I break down each new project into weekly and daily plans, and prioritize the day's goals in the morning. It's fairly mundane. Sometimes my wife needs help with the kids; we have four of them; two have graduated college, but two are still in school.

Has parenting changed the way you look at the business and music?

Yeah, it does. Parenting definitely changes the way I look at the world and the way I write. I mean, in one sense parenting changes you for the better because it forces you to become selfless. Unfortunately, that can makes for worse music, because the best rock and roll is completely selfish. I admit my songs are not as good as they used to be. But I still do the best I can because I'd rather be a good person now. I already wrote my great songs.