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Glenn Dicker
March 19, 2019
Have an opinion? Add your comment below. So it wasn't any one thing or release that made us realize, "Wow, we're going to make it!" We just believed we were going to make it because we felt we had no other choice but to make it. Maybe we were just young and naïve, but we were confident; just go for it and if you work hard, you can't lose. If something didn't work out, we just keep at it. That's what made it fun for us - and we're still enjoying it; it still feels like the label's a new thing and there's so much more to do
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Change has been the byword for the music industry over the past few - well, pretty much since forever. And it seems the changes have been greater and have accelerated as time has gone on - especially when change has been a "buy word." From vinyl to cassettes to CDs to downloads to now streaming, the labels have had to drastically reconstruct how they do business. As have independents such as Yep Roc Records, which has weathered the seismic shifts in business by staying ahead of the curve and tirelessly working its eclectic roster of Americana and Triple A young acts such as Mandarin Orange and Eleni Mandell with veterans such as Nick Lowe, Los Straightjackets, Kim Richey, Robyn Hitchcock and Jim Lauderdale, as well as L.A. punk/roots stalwarts such as John Doe, Dave Alvin, Steve Wynn and the Flesh Eaters. Yep Roc Co-Founder Glenn Dicker explains how he has survived and prospered through the changing times.
I see you started out as a musician first. What kind of music did you and/or your band play?
I guess it was ... garage/psychedelic rock. That would be the easiest way to say it. Aggressive, yet harmony-based. To be sure, we weren't breaking any new genres or anything.
What made you decide to go into the business end?
While I was still in the band, I started working at Rounder Distribution. It was the perfect place to work if you were in a band because you were surrounded by music. You could learn from all the music people there, most of which also seemed to be in bands. It also offered really flexible working hours, so you could take off and go on the road with your band. I was cool with that.
I started in the warehouse, but as new positions became available, I applied for them. Although I didn't get every single job that opened up, I was ambitious enough to keep trying and I eventually moved up the ranks over time and ultimately worked for their record label. It got to a point where I ended up starting a label with a couple of the other guys who worked there, which was called Upstart. The label would be distributed by Rounder; then the owners of Rounder became our business partners when we had a chance to sign Nick Lowe and needed some dough. It was a super fun-thing, exciting and a great learning experience. We were able to experiment to basically see firsthand what it's like to run a record label.
As far as the band went, we had done it for a time and after a handful of years, some of the people went off to do different things. It got to a point where it just felt like an organic flow to concentrate on the business side, which I really liked. It wasn't some kind of premeditated progression; I didn't have any kind of epiphany. The label just naturally came together; it felt right at the time.
Were there any specific indie labels you wanted to model Yep Roc after?
We learned a lot working at Rounder, but we didn't try to model Yep Roc after any particular label. We just wanted it to be broad-based in terms of talent, done in old school form with a bit more attitude. We were open to doing different kinds of music, not just, for instance, garage or anything. We were shooting for what we wanted do and thought of as good. We only put out records that differentiated ourselves.
Naturally, we started small. We worked in my partner's basement and started to work with local artists. One night, we would go to the Cat's Cradle in Chapel Hill and it'd be a sold-out show by some kind of indie pop band. The next night, we'd go to another sold-out show there and it was a honky-tonk band. When we saw a lot of the same people at both shows, we thought, "Well, it looks like a lot of kids like different types of music ... why not put out different type of stuff - and not be so genre-centric? That was the inspiration into doing all kinds of stuff on a label right from the start - and we've continued that vibe to this day.
When did you realize that you could actually make a decent career out of the label? Was it a certain release?
Probably not. We were just committed to doing it. My business partner, Tor Hansen, and I both worked at Rounder, but his experience in the business was different than mine. He got into retail marketing and sales, while I got more into record label stuff. When the opportunity came to work together, it felt like a naturally good fit. We had known each other since we were five years old, so there was no question in our minds that we could do it - and it mattered to do this on our own. We had no partners, no money coming from investors, so we could build it piece by piece over time. We were patient with our growth but remained aggressively ambitious at the same time. Same as today.
So it wasn't any one thing or release that made us realize, "Wow, we're going to make it!" We just believed we were going to make it because we felt we had no other choice but to make it. Maybe we were just young and naïve, but we were confident; just go for it and if you work hard, you can't lose. If something didn't work out, we just keep at it. That's what made it fun for us - and we're still enjoying it; it still feels like the label's a new thing and there's so much more to do.
However, there were certain signings to the label that did feel like big steps forward. When we started to work with Los Straitjackets, who I had a previous relationship with, and Nick Lowe, those two changed things. Los Straitjackets was the first national group we signed and became our biggest seller to date ... and then Nick Lowe was our first and biggest international artist. The latter was a situation where everyone was aware of him; radio loved him at one time, press adored him, so signing him became a thing. And then all kinds of artists starting coming to us after he signed with us in 2000. It legitimized us in a way; it was a game-changer.
How did an indie label like Yep Roc get to sign veteran acts like Nick Lowe and Los Straitjackets in the first place?
It's a trust thing, I think, most importantly. We worked together for a time with Upstart so there was a strong relationship. But we had to have the ability to deliver through Yep Roc and Redeye to give them confidence as well. We had some good success with local artists in an international way which helped to seal the deal. You establish a relationship and demonstrate, through your action, your commitment to the artist and their vision. It manifests itself by having a very open environment at the label. When you do the kind of records you really want to do, you put together strong marketing, promotion and distribution plans to get the music out there and try to expand the fan base, by getting more and more visibility for the artists.
Are there any acts or type of acts you'd like to sign - reggae or hip-hop, perhaps?
That's a tough one. We don't sign anything if we're not interested in that type of music. Are we able to do reggae or hip-hop? Depends. We do a lot of different kinds of things and have had a relationship with Studio One Records, which is a great brand for ska and rock steady. I don't necessarily feel it's a bit of a stretch for those bands. If both they and we feel it's the right thing, we'd do it for sure.
We're looking for artists who can get us through the songwriting. If the artist has really good songs, I can imagine doing anything they want in regards to a musical vision --- and if it doesn't work out at first, we'll keep at it. We want to sign artists who are kind of like we were when we started Yep Roc; we just didn't see quitting as an option. Sure, we'll adjust things, but we knew if we kept going, we'd figure it out. We want artists with that mentality.
How did Yep Roc deal with the transitions, from vinyl to CD, then from CD to downloading, and most recently from downloading to streaming?
There have definitely been bumps in the road. I will say that having our own distribution company has been pretty helpful; it has enabled us to be on the front lines for all of the retail relationships we've had. We've always been very aggressive in spotting new ways to consume music. Being small and independent allows us to experiment with new ways of doing things. We are committed to being a distributor as well, so if there's a new way people are consuming music, we're going to figure out the value proposition for Redeye to be involved for our label partners, including Yep Roc.
On the label side, we tend to be a bit flexible and open-minded about things. We don't have to only rely on making money from sales because our distribution side has enabled us to experiment a bit more, take chances and risks. It's not just the type of records or artists we work with, but how we approach marketing, promoting and distribution in a way that moves the needle. We did a lot of different things whenever a new service started; we explored the best way do things. The same thing is happening now. So while we do get bumps in the road, we've been very aggressive in music that is focused on hardcore music fans. People may think everyone is streaming but nobody is buying product, but we're still doing great business in CDs ... and vinyl is growing tremendously, especially with the younger artists' fans. Streaming is certainly taking off, but it has been more of a gentle transition for us because we appeal to people who are hardcore music fans who still tend to buy physical product as well. Even if they stream music all day, they'll buy records by their favorite artists.
Streaming seems to have benefited established acts with a lot of gold and recurrent spins. Has that influenced who you sign -- more artists with track records, perhaps -- and/or market your bands?
We're looking for mostly new artists to work with. Mandolin Orange has our biggest selling album -- and they're barely out of their 20s. They're continuing to grow more and more with each record. We have done well with artists who are into roots music, which has done decently on Triple A, but has definitely done well on Americana, where Mandolin Orange's latest record reached #4 on the chart (and climbing). We're signing a lot of younger and developing artists, but every once in a while, we love to get some more legendary figures.
Where do you focus your promotion efforts to radio?
Americana and Triple A are top-of-mind, but we still do some college stations as well as specialty shows that really hit a genre -- garage, bluegrass, etc. They're not as big a thing as they were in the '80s or '90s, but I still love college radio. We work radio on a record-by-record basis. A lot of the artists we used to work at Triple A don't fit there as the format has gotten more mainstream, but there are still opportunities.
Does Yep Roc support and get a taste of its artists' touring financially?
No, whatever they make is just for them. We do support them because ultimately, it helps us sell records. We're very proactive in supporting our artists on the road because helping them helps us all.
Are you or your artists deriving any decent income through YouTube exposure?
The money we're getting back from YouTube is very small, but we do encourage and create videos for artists and create strategies for exposure. For sure, it's an important part of the overall game plan.
A lot of people are pointing to a resurgence in vinyl sales. Is that growing a bigger part of your revenue mix, or is vinyl more of a collectors' market?
Vinyl sales keep ticking up, but we've found that more kids are buying it. It's not just a collectors market. If you take a look at the most popular indie artists we deal with, most of them are seeing 50% or more of their revenue still coming from CDs and vinyl sales. But we don't focus on any one thing; revenue is really a combination of things -- not just vinyl or CD sales, but streaming and performance royalties from satellite services such as SiriusXM and the Pandoras of the world. All of that revenue is so important because it adds up to something. Having these multiple formats being used for revenue is healthy thing.
Since your product does well at indie record stores, do you put a lot of effort into Record Store Day?
Actually, it's not the most profitable thing for us as a label. It's great for stores - and we like to support our indie record store partners as much as we can. We're always into supporting indie retailers and Yep Roc will usually have two to six different things for Record Store Day every year ... and one or two things for Black Friday, too. It's important that we support indie retail; they're still the heart and soul of record business
How much do you use social media?
It depends on the artist. Certainly we do a lot of social media marketing with our own label properties, but we also help artists specifically in terms of strategy and planning -- whether we do it with them or for them. Some artists don't want to do much of it and we don't make them unless they want us do what's appropriate for them. If Nick Lowe wants to be active on Instagram, we don't do it for him unless he wants us to. We'll never impose it on him in any way. It all depends on the artist's vision - and from that we map our strategy.
Yep Roc is now over 20 years old. Have you looked at or planned for the future of the label? When you personally decide to call it a day, would you sell it to someone else? Or have it absorbed into a major label?
I don't think so. I'm speaking for myself here, but I think my partner feels the same way. I'm not really happy unless I'm busy. I like working and I believe in what we're doing for our artists. I feel we have an important role to play in indie music; it's an inspiring thing to do this and I feel energized by doing it every day. As far as it changing in the future, who knows? We do have plans to keep it going; we hope it keeps rolling and we want to see it last. We're certainly not looking to sell it or anything.
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