Orlando & Domino

One interesting nugget from last week's Power Player interview with WLLD (WiLD 94)/Tampa PD Orlando was his revelation that he maintained a close friendship with Dom "Domino" Theodore even though the stations they programmed at the time - Orlando at WiLD and Domino at crosstown Top 40 WFLZ - were engaged in a heated competitive battle for radio supremacy, which was somewhat reminiscent of the all-out war between Power Pig and Q105 in Tampa that proceeded it. Since that interview was posted, Theodore confirmed their (and their stations') double-edged relationship to All Access. This brought up the nature of competition in radio -- both then and now -- which Orlando and Domino, the latter who is now President of RadioAnimal Media Consulting, discussed at length below...

From last week's Power Player interview:

ORLANDO: I had multiple offers to leave Tallahassee before choosing WiLD - and when I did arrive in Tampa, soon after I was up against Dom Theodore at WFLZ. I got to know Dom while in Tallahassee, as he was traveling between Island 106 in Panama City, where he was PD, and his Tampa/FLZ responsibilities. He always said we had to work together, and many don't know he tried, tirelessly, to get me hired at FLZ, but to no avail. When WiLD called, I wanted to decline out of loyalty, but he said, "You take that job and show these guys their mistake." So I knew Tampa was going to make me as happy as a crackhead with cash. I couldn't pass up the opportunity and it has really been fun - a great place to live and raise my kids.

Domino's response:

DOMINO: Orlando and I became good friends just as I was getting back to Tampa and I did make a big push to hire him at FLZ. Many people don't realize how close this was to happening -- and Tampa Bay radio would have played out a lot differently had I been able to convince them to hire Orlando at FLZ. I never forgot Orlando's loyalty to me when he called and told me that Jerry Clifton wanted him to interview at WiLD for PM Drive and APD/MD ... but he was going to pass on the interview because he knew I was pushing hard to get him into FLZ. At the time, the FLZ deal wasn't moving like I had hoped, and I couldn't let my friend pass up such an opportunity. So I told Orlando, "You need to interview for that gig ... and you'll probably get it. I know that's going to suck for me because I'd rather have you in my building instead of across the street, but you deserve this opportunity and I can't let you pass that up." So he did, and the rest is history. Orlando and I stayed good friends throughout that heated battle between FLZ and WiLD. We would go off campus and have dinner -- all while our people were fighting an epic street battle that people still talk about today. But we always had mutual admiration and respect for each other through it all, and remained close friends.

It's certainly interesting that you were competing against each other in Tampa, a market that was the site of one the most competitive radio battles of all-time, the notorious Power Pig/Q105 war. Were you cognizant of that history when you took your respective posts there? Did it reverberate with your respective staffs?

ORLANDO: When we launched WiLD, FLZ was the target. There wasn't any other Top 40s or Rhythmic FMs, so our mission was to be present wherever they were. Disrupt whatever possible and leave an impression that there was a new radio wave in Tampa Bay. Having a staff of 15-20 twenty-somethings meant the confrontations would occur. It's ironic that infamous parade antics launched Power Pig against Q105, because a lot of the stations' clashing occurred in parade settings as well. I remember our GM brought everyone shredders -- in programming and promotions. When we asked why, we were told "FLZ's been in the garbage." That's when I knew this was next level. Passing out FLZ shirts to homeless people and sending them to their weekly remotes is vaguely familiar (I may be mistaken, though ... LOL).

DOMINO: You have to remember it was a different time ... you had a battle between a station influenced by Randy Michaels on one side, and a station influenced by Jerry Clifton on the other, and a staff of twenty-somethings in both promotion teams and on-air ... it was the perfect storm for an aggressive radio war. The more innocent things ranged from sticker wars, clashes at parades, showing up at each other's events, throwing eggs (and other things) at each other ... and some not-so-innocent things that probably went too far at times. Some things we just can't talk about and are better left to folklore. The biggest difference between the Q105/Power Pig battle and the FLZ/WiLD battle was the street war. The FLZ staff was prohibited from ever talking acknowledging WiLD on-the-air, but in the streets it was "game on." In the case of Q105, the Power Pig attacked Q on the air constantly.

Did you keep your non-office visits a secret?

ORLANDO: They weren't secret because people knew our story in-house, but I was also the new kid in town, so no one recognized me. When his staff would see us pal around at common events, they would get pretty stiff. FLZ jocks would watch me talk to Dom, like I was a busty, ex-girlfriend, chatting up their husband.

DOMINO: The FLZ staff knew of my friendship with Orlando, and it was funny to watch our teams act so uncomfortable around each other, while Orlando and I were just genuinely enjoying catching up. There was an unspoken understanding on both sides that Orlando and I were both "off limits" in the street war because both staffs knew our history and respected our relationship.

Was that the first time when you realized radio may not always need a "winner take all" mentality?

ORLANDO: WiLD was trying to crush FLZ and I believe their wish was the same. We absolutely had winning in mind, but whichever way the scoreboard went, we were able to cheer each other and remain fans of what the other brought to the table. I always expected him to succeed, so I needed to steal wins where I could. When those opportunities came about, he'd be the first one on the phone with kudos.

DOMINO: Make no mistake, we both wanted to win at all costs. We were just able to separate work from personal friendship. When the game is on, we fight like hell on the field and go for the win. But when the game is done, we respect each other and acknowledge when a game was "well played." I think we both thrived on the competitiveness of it all, and it made us both better.

And you were never at all tempted to try to take advantage of what you knew about each other?

ORLANDO: I came to radio while in a recording group in Tallahassee, so parodies were always my thing. To land a job at FLZ, I recorded a customized remix to one of the current titles, switching the words to explain why "Orlando was the guy to be the next FLZ superstar." I'd mentioned all the DJs, the stationality, club presence and shot my proverbial shot. For the time, it was pretty good, actually. I sent it and Dom responded how I'd hoped and it got me into the conversation. 'Til this day, he never shared that recording that he still has, even after very large Clear Channel personalities begged to have it, so they could air my praises of FLZ and undermine my standing as the guy against what they were doing. We never really talked about it until our CBS days, but while I knew unequivocally that he wanted to win, I knew he didn't want to win in that way, by crushing me in the process. He has my respect for many things but that made a lasting level of respect you don't find in many.

DOMINO: I still have that recording in my possession; it's labeled "Orlando's FLZ rap," and a few of the FLZ jocks at the time were really pissed that I wouldn't let anybody have a copy or use it in any way on the air. You have to remember, Orlando was somebody who I still had hopes to work with someday and possibly hire at some point, so I didn't want to sour the relationship and make it so that we couldn't work together in the future. As history has proven, that was a very good decision.

Is more tempered competitive nature a better fit in today's business climate?

ORLANDO: The business has changed with multiple stations under one roof. The "gotcha" climate that we currently live in has changed with our newfound instant outrage and litigious nature. The things that we experienced would end up in court or on the 10 o'clock news. Back then, it was for radio one-upmanship and possibly landing the cover of Network 40 or an R&R write-up, if we were lucky.

DOMINO: The industry is much more risk-adverse today than it was back then. The truth is, the radio industry could use a good dose of the "maverick" spirit that we had back then, but in an updated form. But sadly, most stations today aren't even staffed enough to support a battle, and most PDs don't have the time to wage war because they are too busy writing reports and wearing multiple hats. And I don't know of many companies that still have budget lines for "bail," like we did back in the Jacor days.

There are those who believe the epic street battles of old, such as when Howard Stern came to town and declared war on whoever was #1 in mornings, actually raised the profile of radio overall, and was good for the business. Agree?

ORLANDO: That golden time was void of social media, which factors in to me. People had to come to radio or they'd miss any shot over the bow. Everything pointed the masses back to the source. Now that everyone is a reporter and with retweets, reposts and Facebook shares, we would see the battle of Howard vs. The Industry everywhere but where it mattered ... on the air.

DOMINO: In the world before PPM and social media, you had no choice but to employ these kind of tactics if you wanted to get attention. At the time, attention was the ultimate currency -- after all, you had to be memorable enough for people to write down your name in a ratings diary. Now that the measure is actual listening and not perceived listening, and listeners have their own audiences just like the radio station. There are much easier and better ways to make "impact" than the epic street battles that we fought back then.

Do you see any irony in the soft-pedaled rivalry between radio stations today and the polarized competitive nature of politics and cable news?

ORLANDO: WiLD is able to thrive to this day because it's never been a color or one side of a "party." It's been about mass populous. The divisive nature of the competition in cable news and the strain that politics puts on that battle seems more guttural ... more disdain for who they are and the fiber of the other. When I watch the differing sides, I truly feel there's nothing else BUT how the other guys have it wrong. The famous radio battles, such as ours, Howard vs. Imus, KMEL vs. Wild, etc. were always part of the presentation but hardly "all-in" the way I see cable news portrayed.

DOMINO: If you look at the political spectrum, there are very highly defined differences between the political parties that each side can clearly articulate. But other than big morning shows, there are far fewer and less discernible differences between most radio stations today. Much of this is due to how risk-adverse most companies have become, and the fact that everybody tends to employ the same "best practices," so station A and station B use similar research screeners, get similar music test results, use the same "commercial-free" tactics, promote very similar cash contests, and end up all within a few tenths of a share of each other in highly compressed ratings rankers. In general, radio needs more content experimentation and a good dose of innovation if we want to create standout stations and big brands.

Finally, what's the best way for you and your stations to keep a competitive edge if you're not in the "all-out wars" of decades past?

ORLANDO: With age comes wisdom and being inwardly focused on what your station does --and the connectivity with your audience is always first page. Reacting is a task for those who are behind, so you never want to always work from that position. The competition is still there and the staff still wants to crush our opponents; it's just by cultivating the brand that we believe in as opposed to the pissing match. We pee from a distance now ... LOL!

DOMINO: The competition is just different now. It's not just other radio stations; it's really a competition for people's time. We have more delivery systems for music and content than ever before ... these are ALL competitors to radio. But the one thing that hasn't changed is the number of hours in a day. Human beings only have the capacity to consume so much media within a 24-hour period regardless of "delivery system." And the content choices they make are based on what is most interesting and entertaining to them. So when radio stations are in a race to be the best "appliance" that dispenses music, we have to realize that there are far better appliances than radio for this purpose, and we have already lost the pure "appliance" battle.

But if we view ourselves as more than just an "appliance" and instead develop unique and exclusive content in-between the songs, and a product that people love for more than just the music, we can capture a larger portion of people's time as they will seek us for the content that they can't get anywhere else. But to do that requires intelligent risk-taking and experimentation. The new fight is for creative freedom, and that is perhaps the toughest battle of all.