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Bill Hess
July 9, 2019
Have an opinion? Add your comment below. My job is to act as some sort of consultant and facilitator, but in general the Cumulus Talk platform emphasizes a variety of topics that go well beyond what's going on at the White House each day. We like the other topics to be either local or lifestyle in nature. We had a great debate a couple of weeks ago, when Canada was considering outlawing dodgeball because smaller children and female students would get injured; that was a spectacular topic. Nothing to do with politics, no Trump vs. world. People of all stripes debated that because almost everybody, at one time in their lives, played dodgeball. We look for those kind of topics
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In a politically polarized environment, Talk radio never seems to run out of having something to argue or complain about. But as Cumulus Media VP/NewsTalk Bill Hess notes, there's a lot more to achieving success in the format than knowing your talking points. Here, he talks about how the format has evolved over the years, what really makes it work today, and how it will have to adapt to the inevitable changes in audience and platforms to succeed in the future.
Over your career, you've overseen music formats as well as Talk formats. What made you decide to focus your energies on News/Talk?
I had previously held jobs where I oversaw both music and Talk formats, but after I spent five years with Clear Channel in Washington, D.C. at WASH and WBIG,I realized I missed the Talk aspect. So when I got the opportunity to go to New York to be head of programming for Air America, I took it. It was a great opportunity for me to try another kind of Talk programming. Ultimately, it didn't work out but it was still a great experience that confirmed a Talk focus for the rest of my career.
What lessons did you learn from your Air America tenure?
The biggest lesson I took out of that simply is that the Talk format needs to be entertaining and engaging -- and not come off as lecturing. Too often that was the case, not just at Air America but at many Talk stations.
Eventually, you made it to WMAL and you certainly established your presence there. What have been the keys to success to WMAL's success and for News/Talk in general?
For me, it was most important to go in and really immerse myself in the community, the personalities and the culture of the radio station. In WMAL's case, it was already a strong radio station, but it only had two live-and-local dayparts and they had cut back on news operations. Once I got to know the station, its heritage and the market, it became clear to me that we needed to add another local daypart and expand our news ops to be an aggressive news gathering force in the market. We did these things over time and they have paid off quite well.
When adding a new on-air host like you did in afternoons, how long do you give it before evaluating the success of the move - and do you judge solely by ratings, or ratings and revenue?
Sometimes Talk personalities take a little more time for the audience to warm up to. The same goes for station management. When a PD is in a new situation, sometimes the first impression of air talent may not be the correct impression.
In our case, we felt dropping syndication in afternoons to go live and local with Larry O'Connor would help generate more ratings and revenue. Thanks to support from upper management, the launch was a success and he has been able to help us put that together.
What's your take on the whole "syndicated vs. local talent" debate? Should there be some sort of balance? Is part of your job turning your local stars into national ones?
I wouldn't say I prefer local over syndicated. When I came in here, I looked at the situation and ultimately came to the conclusion that the best way to grow this station was putting live talent in the afternoon slot. At the same time, syndication is also a great part of what we do. Mark Levin, Ben Shapiro and Rush Limbaugh are all keys to the success of the station. It ultimately comes down to finding the right mix of shows based on your budget and revenue opportunities.
Is part of my job to help create the next generation of syndicated radio stars? My job is to try to help personalities be the best they can be to create success for the station. If that ultimately leads to being on more stations, great for them. Our midday host, Chris Plante, has had a very successful syndicated rollout, and his show now airs on over 90 stations, including WLS/Chicago in addition to WMAL. That's been most rewarding! Conversely, afternoon host Larry O'Connor now does a second custom show each day on KABC in L.A., in addition to WMAL. I meet with our local hosts every day as my job is to do everything I can to help the talent be their very best.
It's no secret that in these polarized and political times, there are advertisers who have grown skittish of sponsoring certain shows due to the way the hosts express themselves. How have you handled that?
It's the nature of the beast. The most successful on-air talents are passionate and aggressive in their conversations -- but not nasty. As long as they're not personally attacking anybody, it should be fine. Of course I'm not a fan of advertiser boycotts; I feel it's a cowardly way to deal someone you may disagree with. Unfortunately, part of my job is to get air talent through organized boycotts - and we do power through them because we have a great sales staff that understands the format, knows the clients we can work with and together, we figure out how to get through those situations when they come up. We see it as a First Amendment issue. We welcome guests to come on to dispute the hosts. Callers who disagree are put in the front of the line because they create better debate on the radio.
As VP/Talk, you now oversee all of Cumulus' Talk stations. How much of the programming and production strategies you employ at WMAL works everywhere else?
First off, you have to watch each market's own nuances to reflect the mindset of each local audience. My job is to act as some sort of consultant and facilitator, but in general the Cumulus Talk platform emphasizes a variety of topics that go well beyond what's going on at the White House each day. We like the other topics to be either local or lifestyle in nature. We had a great debate a couple of weeks ago, when Canada was considering outlawing dodgeball because smaller children and female students would get injured; that was a spectacular topic. Nothing to do with politics, no Trump vs. world. People of all stripes debated that because almost everybody, at one time in their lives, played dodgeball. We look for those kind of topics.
There's also been a concern that AM Talk's days are numbered because its core demo is aging out. How have you reacted to that?
The focus on adults 25-54 is something we swear by at WMAL, and we've been #5 25-54 and #2 men 35-44. I feel it's defeatist to just say people are aging out of the demo; we just have to work harder to find the things that people 35-44 care to talk about. Essentially, that's what our job is.
Are you confident that there's enough topics to talk about that can simultaneously capture both ends of that demo?
That's why I said we focus on 35-44. If our talent discusses the hot topics of interest to 35-44, it will drive the both ends of the spectrum. But talking about ratings is just one thing; just as, if not more important is creating shows that move product for advertisers. That's another thing we focus on here -- having talent not only tell a good story, in terms of setting up the topic and debating callers, but telling a good story for the advertiser.
WMAL has just jumped into the Sports/Talk pool on the AM with ESPN and a simulcast deal with the Redskins. Are the keys to a successful News/Talk station the same for a Sports/Talk station?
Well, we're about to find out! I'm really excited about this move. To me, the keys to success in both formats are the same: passion and great storytelling. That's what makes for success in any spoken-word station. Some of the most successful Sports/Talk personalities are passionate, screaming about their teams, the players and coaches. It's very similar to political topics and politicians.
With broadcast rights getting more costly, some teams have invested equity in the play-by-play station. The Dodgers own 49% of its flagship station, while Redskins owner Daniel Snyder used to own a radio station for its play-by-play. How do you see that concept, if not for WMAL, but for any other Cumulus Sports station considering broadcast rights of a sports team?
As you said, the Washington Redskins used to own its own Sports/Talk station, but ultimately elected to get out of that business and sold the station to Radio One. In this market, I'm not sure that we're going to move in that direction too quickly for any of our teams. Sports teams are good at running sports teams; broadcasters are good at running broadcast operations. The other thing you run risk as a station with a team as an equity owner is that too much of your focus is on that team, when variety is as important in Sports as is any format. No matter how popular one team is, you can't talk about just one team all the time. Here in D.C., we talk a lot about the Redskins, but we also spend a lot of time talking about the Nationals, the Wizards and the Caps, as well as the lifestyle of our listeners.
In my way of thinking, it doesn't even matter that much who has rights to any team; we focus and talk about whatever's going on. So while it may be Redskins talk Monday morning after their game, we'll talk Nationals if, for instance, Max Scherzer throws a no-hitter, or the Wizards if they make a trade. We need to participate in whatever people are talking about each and every day.
Podcasting has long been a part of Talk programming in terms of repurposing and time-shifting dayparts. How much should Talk radio invest in original podcast programming?
We have very talented broadcasters and on-air talent on Cumulus News/Talk and Sports/Talk stations -- and these hosts have more interests than politics or sports. I see an opportunity for some of our better talents to expand their brands, perhaps by launching podcasts based on their special interests. Certainly our podcasts should be extensions of existing shows, but additional shows should demonstrate their other interests that fit the lifestyle of their audience.
In terms of your digital efforts, how much of your growth in that platform is dependent on ROI?
Resources are always stretched in broadcasting. At WMAL, we put lot of effort into our website and we do have folks who, as part of their responsibilities, regularly update our website, which is typically one of the top three to four most-heavily trafficked websites in the fleet. We're proud of that, but it's more than a matter of allocating resources. Some days it's a matter of shifting people so in case of breaking news, we make sure both ends -- on-air and on the site - are covered. We've also discovered that we can use our website to carry long-form special event coverage, so while we can carry a press conference with a foreign leader on the site, all we need to do on-air is pre-empt our regular programming with regular updates -- and refer to the website coverage on-air constantly.
Do you feel AM has a future in broadcasting? If the movement towards FM continues, should Talk stations change their production and programming style?
To answer the last part of the question first, you target changes in programming and production style if you decide to go for a younger audience after moving from AM to FM. You should always tweak your imaging, sound and feel of the station once in a while, but I don't know if you should automatically go after younger demos just because you go to FM. When we added a FM simulcast to WMAL six or seven years ago, we didn't make a lot of substantial changes. We did bring in new hosts who had a fresher way of looking at things, so we felt the station would play well on FM - and knock on wood, it has been successful in terms of the bigger picture. I also think content wins are harder to find solely on AM because the AM audience is not that big. But that's where our other platforms become more important. An AM's digital platform can be competitive with an FM and on an equal plane on the iHeartRadio and TuneIn platforms. It's still all about making good content available to your listeners.
Having done this for decades now, how do you see your future? Are you setting three or five-year goals, or at this point in your career, you're essentially taking it one day at a time?
I enjoy each day as it comes. The only thing I ever wanted to do since I was a little kid was be in radio. I consider myself incredibly fortunate to be able to do this. I love the work and the people in this business, and as long as someone will have me, I'll keep doing it.
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