Kenny Smoov

It's never easy for an Urban station. Today, many of their artists - especially in Hip-Hop - are the streaming leaders, producing the most popular music on the air. At the same time, Top 40s are playing more of these artists more often. Good thing for the artists, of course, but for Urban radio...? Here, Cumulus VP/Urban Kenny Smoov discusses the current situation and how he helps the group's Urban stations achieve greater success.

When did you first think about getting into radio and what was your first radio gig like?

I got into radio kind of like a trial by fire. A club DJ who worked at radio station KIIZ/Killeen, TX was supposed to show up and do a remote, but he didn't. Mychal Maguire asked me to play the records at the remote in his absence, so I mixed the event and covered for both of them ... and I've pretty much been on the radio since then.

How long were you in the business before you decided you wanted to get into programming?

Probably when I got first full-time shift ... at KIIZ. I was stationed in the military there when I got my first full-time shift doing nights. I was also allowed be Mix Coordinator, too. Being in that position suddenly made me see the business side of radio and I decided to make a career out of it. My first PD gig was at KBCE/Alexandria, LA

Was it at all difficult to transition from being "one of the guys" as part of the on-air staff to being the boss as PD?

Not really. As I said, I was a sergeant in the military so even though I was very young, I was used to being in charge and being a leader of people. I simply used what I learned in the military to effectively manage people in civilian life. The discipline and order made it easy for me to transition.

What were the biggest challenges to being a successful programmer then - and are they any different now?

The biggest challenge used to be access to resources. Back then, being in a small market like Alexandria, LA, it was hard to get new music and often in smaller markets, stations didn't have all of the right equipment. Now with consolidation and digital technology, those aren't concerns anymore. The cost of entry is not so high and you can create a pretty good sounding radio station and get all the music you need very easily.

Not only have you programmed Urbans, but you also programmed a Top 40. How were they different?

I will say this. I was a lot more mathematic while programming at Top 40. When I would get my callout and research numbers, I would basically draw a line. Everything that scored about this mark got played and everything below it, did not. I didn't have the emotional attachment to the artists that I had for certain Urban artists - and it worked out for me that way.

Now that you're overseeing all of Cumulus' Urban stations, how much of your advice is strictly local to each individual station and how much is part of an overall national Urban strategy?

It's definitely station by station. Having spent a long time in this company, I have a familiarity with many of the brands. I know a lot of the markets and understand some of the nuances. But frankly, my counsel comes from a very customized place. Each market has its own unique set of circumstances and we must dig deep into that.

How has Urban music and radio evolved over the years?

Urban has evolved into primarily two formats - Urban AC and Urban Mainstream, the latter of which is the dominant music right now. Be it sales data or streaming data, no other music is as popular as Hip-Hop. Over the last three decades, Hip-Hop has been a significant part of pop music - and I see it growing even more in popularity.

Top 40s and Rhythmics are playing more of Urban's and especially Hip-Hop's biggest hits. Has that impacted how you play those artists?

What happened is that when I was doing Top 40, Katy Perry, Taylor Swift and the Chainsmokers were the biggest massive artists of the day, so pop radio didn't need to come over into the Urban space and grab its artists. Right now, pop radio doesn't have a lot of mass-appeal artists, so they have to come over to Hip-Hop because that's where the big hits are; artists such as Cardi and Migos, are killing it right now. If you're a Top 40 PD, you have to play the hits to survive, no matter where they come from. Top 40 has always done that!

Has Urban's target demo changed over the years in terms of its taste in Urban and Hip-Hop music?

Not so much. Urban Mainstream, which is still primarily A18-34 focused. Meanwhile Urban ACs still target A25-54. There are certain heritage mainstreams, such as WWWZ/Charleston, that have so much heritage they can offer music for both target demos.

Hip-hop is especially popular on the streaming services. Are you relying on their data more often in your music decisions?

It's important that you believe in the data. I don't know if it's going to be as simple as if you get this many streams, you add the record. I haven't seen a whole lot of that. But it is a tool for your toolbox that you should take a look at and be aware of. You can never have too many tools that give you a better look into your market.

Has the streaming data unearthed any surprise hits for you?

Daniel Caesar and HER's project, "Best Part," broke big on Urban ACs. When you see how well that project did with adults, it basically compels you to seek out the next big song on streaming platforms.

What's your take on the old school Hip-Hop format ... is it a flash in the pan?

We saw a lot of it "go boom and bust," but the ones that are really good are still here. We have one in Atlanta that survived a war down there ... and it's still going strong and the station recently added the new Rick and Sasha Morning Show to its programming mix. Personally, I feel old school Hip-Hop music should have been more of an asset for Urban AC. Hip-Hop should have been incorporated more into the Urban AC format as soon as those stations started to move away from Earth Wind & Fire and the Gap Band. As soon as they phased them out, they should have phased in hits by Tupac and Biggie and other Hip-Hop brands. If they did this, there wouldn't have been a need to create a whole other format.

So the possibility of an Urban-flavored Jack FM is essentially a non-starter?

Musically we may try it, but I don't know if the Urban community would buy in. They're so dialed-in with personalities and formats that have always been a beacon of information and entertainment. Just running music with five-second liners with attitude? I don't know if that's going to be an answer at Urban.

Where do you see the future of the format and Urban music in general? Should Urban be considered a niche format, or can it grow to a point where it's a mass-appeal format a la Top 40 and Country?

In my opinion, Urban Mainstream is already mass appeal. Everyone knows that Hip-Hop and R&B is driving the bus. So there is a possibility that Urban Mainstream as a format could spread its wings. If radio operators see value in what the streaming data says, you could see more Urban Mainstream options on the dial.

And what of your personal future?

I'd like to see myself becoming more of an executive and becoming more of a source for the industry and a tutor for future programmers. I can see myself doing more coaching and bringing more people into the business. That hasn't been happening very much over the last five to 10 years. We've been missing a lot of new young talent as well as new programmers. We need to see more of them ... and I want to have more of a hand in doing that.