Jon Zellner

Jon Zellner is the quintessential "radio guy." Starting as an on-air talent over two decades ago, Zellner captured his first programming gig five years later at KYIS/Oklahoma City, before plying his trade at KTHT/Fresno, KMXV and three sister stations in Kansas City ...as VP Hot AC Programming at WBMX-WODS/Boston ... then as SVP/Music Programming at Sirius ... to, currently, SVP/Programming for Clear Channel. On top of overseeing programming for over 200 radio stations in 27 markets, Zellner has also been the driving force behind new niche formats such as Classic Hits and Rhythmic Gen X, Classic Rock "The Brew" and a 24/7 Comedy format. Here he describes his past, present and future.

You've been a programmer for many years, working at a number of different companies. Is there a difference in successfully adapting to each corporate culture ... or is the whole concept somewhat overblown?

I absolutely believe that senior management in any company sets the tone for its culture, regardless of its size. When I started in radio over 20 years ago, my goal (like most programmers) was to get to a major market. Because there were many good radio operators at that time, it was not uncommon for people to switch companies.

Then, during consolidation, many people switched companies without ever leaving the radio station. In Kansas City, my GM hung a sign on his door that said, "Honk if you're our new owner," after we had been sold four times in four years. And even though local management stayed the same, the corporate culture of each one of those companies was very different.

A similar story happened to me after the Sirius XM merger as both companies offered similar products, but operated under very different cultures. Today, more than ever, working for the right company and with good people is much more important that the size of the market you work in. At the end of the day, quality of life is paramount.

As a programmer for many years, what keys to programming success have changed since you started, and what keys have basically stayed the same?

The biggest change has been the need for the sound of radio to evolve over time. This need has been reflected in all media -- and some have done it better than others. Watch a TV newscast from 30 years ago and you see anchors who look and sound very serious ... almost distant in their presentation. Back then, simple journalistic integrity was enough to cause an emotional connection with viewers. There was a time when Walter Cronkite could have won the presidential election, but most of the people who would have voted for him probably knew little about him as a person.

Watch movies from 50 years ago (even quality films) and the acting sometimes seems staged by today's standards. And, of course, growing up listening to New York radio in the '70s was thrilling for me at the time because everything sounded larger than life, with screaming jocks and over-the-top presentations.

Sounding "larger than life" today is just as important, but successful TV news anchors, political candidates, actors and radio air talent are making an emotional connection by being real and uncontrived. Many unsuccessful radio stations today are still operating with outdated playbooks.

In 2010, radio stations need to better reflect the lifestyle of their target listeners; air talent needs to be able to offer multi-dimensional opportunities for listeners to relate to them. Every piece of content that hits the air -- and all experiences a listener has with a radio station (through its website and in the community) -- needs to be memorable.

What hasn't changed since I began in radio is the fact that every station needs to match and exceed listener expectations and offer a consistent listening experience throughout the day.

What was the toughest change you had to make to program successfully under the PPM?

PPM challenges radio stations to execute the strategy successfully every day. Stations, morning shows and air talent with a strong brand were (and still are in diary markets) able to achieve huge success with weak execution. In PPM, you're only as strong as what's coming out of the speakers this minute - and every 15 minutes, you start from scratch.

Heritage, top-of-mind awareness, reputation and legacy only get you a pre-set; they won't get you the five minutes you need to win the quarter-hour. Now, more than ever, PDs and air talent need to spend more time planning, preparing and truly understanding the mission before executing.

Are you somewhat comfortable in knowing exactly what to do to optimize success under the PPM ... or is there more to learn?

There is always more to learn, but we have unmatched tools at our disposal and the smartest minds in radio working for Clear Channel, who analyze data every day to come up with specific plans for each radio station, depending on its situation and competitive landscape. I feel confident that any Clear Channel PD or air talent in a PPM market would tell you that they have the best information and resources at their disposal to guide them in making the best decisions for their market.

How has the programming/sales relationship changed over the years - especially since the PPM hit ... and when the economy tanked?

The synergy between programming and sales is a constant focus for the company, regardless of economic conditions. Our goal has been to use the size, scope and reach of Clear Channel to come up with win/win opportunities for sales AND programming through far more than our terrestrial radio signals. There has been a shift in the view of our company both internally and externally from "clusters of radio stations" to an "integrated national media and entertainment company with local engagement."

You have introduced four new formats to radio in your short time with Clear Channel -- the "Gen X" format, the "Gen X Rhythmic" format, "The Brew" and "Comedy Radio 24/7." Tell us about these formats and your inspiration for their launch.

Gen X bills itself as "grunge, hip-hop, hair bands, boy bands and everything in between." As programmers, we made the decision long ago that when a listener outgrew the Top 40 life group, she would acquire a taste for Hot AC because she didn't want to listen to a station that she thought was targeted toward someone younger. That theory worked 15 years ago when listeners who grew up in the '70s and '80s weren't exposed to the "extremes" in pop music.

In the early '90s, both the pop and rock formats splintered off into a variety of segments. Rock stations had to choose between embracing Alternative and grunge, eliminating currents and moving toward Classic Rock, morphing into Triple A, weathering the storm and trying to blend the genres or abandoning the format altogether. Similarly, Top 40 lost about 1,000 stations in less than two years because they had to make the decision whether or not to embrace rap music -- as many 30-ish year-old women at the time hated it.

Today, Hot AC is absolutely a viable format and many stations, including dozens of Clear Channel stations, do it very well. But where does a 34-year-old woman go to hear all the genres of music she grew up with? Gen X covers the late '80s through the early 2000s starting with hair bands (Poison, Def Leppard, Bon Jovi), moves through the '90s with grunge (Green Day, Nirvana, Stone Temple Pilots), embraces hip-hop, R&B and dance (Eminem, Usher, C&C Music Factory), flavors the library with occasional boy bands/teen pop (New Kids, 'N Sync, Britney) and also covers much of the '90s pop/alt category (Matchbox Twenty, Dave Matthews Band, Sheryl Crow).

The station has seen big success in Louisville (where it has been on for over a year and is still Top 5 25-54), Tulsa and most recently, Columbus, where it debuted at #5 25-54 and 18-34.

The Gen X Rhythmic version covers the same years and was recently launched in Honolulu and Fresno. It's billed as "Your Generation's Ol' Skool," playing "hip-hop, R&B, funk and freestyle. The biggest difference between Gen X Rhythmic and Rhythmic AC is that there are no currents played on Gen X. The station will always be about six or seven years behind current music, but can evolve over time so the target listener doesn't change. And, the key to its success (like any gold-based station) is that everything about the station is contemporary expect the music.

The Brew is "Classic Rock's next generation" and covers the mid-'70s through the early '90s. We have used it to attack traditional Classic Rock stations who are still '60s and early '70s-heavy (Hendrix, Floyd, Who), or moved in more of a Classic Hits direction (CCR, Elton, Eagles). Core artists are Van Halen, Tom Petty, Journey, AC/DC, Aerosmith and Foreigner. It has been very successful for us in Portland, Columbus, Omaha, Oklahoma City -- and we just launched another one in New Orleans.

The biggest difference between the Brew and Classic Rock (besides the lack of Zeppelin, Doors and Stones on the Brew) is the fact that every song was a rock hit as well as a pop hit, so the gender breakout ends up being close to 50/50 since all the songs reached critical mass-appeal. Sometimes we forget that the frequency of Top 40 airplay permeates beyond fans of the format, so a huge rock song that never crossed over to pop reached a limited percentage of the listening audience.

The Comedy format has seen great success in satellite radio. Funny 1440 (KFNY-A), which we launched in Riverside a few weeks ago, treats stand-up comedy like a Top 40 station ... all bits are about three minutes or less and the format focuses on core artists such as Dane Cook, Chris Rock, Jerry Seinfeld and Jeff Foxworthy. I think it's a no-brainer for terrestrial stations looking to differentiate themselves from everything else on the dial. 24/7 Comedy Radio is fast-paced, hit-oriented and has mass appeal, while targeting an active young audience. My hope is that it will bring some younger demos back to the AM dial if promoted properly.

Is there a way to "test" a new format ...or basically is it "sink or swim" after launching?

I would rather spend the money marketing a format once we launch than doing a research project to see if people will like it. Many successful new products are ones that companies never researched because they saw the need based on watching people, not asking questions. The Gen X format probably wouldn't score well in a format finder study if pitted against a more traditional format because it's more about the experience. And I firmly believe that traditional formats ALWAYS will win out over niche brands.

But if the niche brand is hyper-focused on one listener and resists the urge to change course, it can create perceived holes that appear larger. That's how Hot AC emerged. My first PD job was at Kiss-FM/Oklahoma City in 1993 and the trade magazines at the time didn't know how to classify the station because we didn't play Michael Bolton and we didn't play "Humpty Dance." Right before I left, the R&R Hot AC chart was born.

What's more difficult - optimizing the initial sampling boom after launch or maintaining the numbers once the initial sampling ends?

Maintaining listenership is always the challenge and that's where setting the expectations inside the building become crucial. Gen X Louisville debuted at #2 18-34 and #3 25-54 (far beyond expectations since the frequency had been 12th prior to launch). The goal of any format launch is to under promise on expectations and over-deliver on results. When I met with the sales department in Louisville after I had been with the company for about a month and told them that we were launching a station that hadn't been tried anywhere before without a research project to back it up ... and I had no idea whether it would work or not, I'm sure many walked out of the room and thought I was crazy.

After the first book, I was careful to make sure that everyone in the building knew that maintaining those ranks was unrealistic and when the station dropped to 6th, no one worried. Now, the station is comfortably sitting at #5 and if we stay top 5 25-54, we're far better than where we were prior to launch. Similarly, The Brew debuted very strong in Columbus, Omaha and Portland, leveled off and came back. In Oklahoma City, The Brew exceeded all expectations beating two heritage Rock stations during its first book. The goal there is to maintain top-5 rank 25-54, far ahead of where the frequency was prior to launch.

There's a fine line between resisting temptation and having the patience to stay the course, knowing that your mission strategy is sound and having the forethought to recognize that subtle adjustments need to be made to evolve the station. In those cases, an evolution, not a revolution, is the answer ... and clear lines of delineation need to be understood.

The Brew format that launched in Milwaukee prior to my arrival at Clear Channel had drifted too old and too male, alienating its core. If radio stations continue to focus on staying narrow and deep as opposed to wide and shallow, listener expectations will be met and maintained.

What kinds of differences are there in the Gen X sound from market to market?

Gen X can absolutely morph to reflect the ethnic composition and competitive landscape in the market. In Columbus, Gen X serves as the de facto Hot AC since there isn't one with a decent signal. But its success hasn't impacted WNCI at all, which continues to dominate in all demos. In Louisville, Gen X has proven to be the perfect complement to 98-9 Radio Now, but it has severely impacted the Hot AC there, which has fallen to 13th 25-54. In Tulsa, Gen X and The Beat represent a good combo and the Alternative station has been impacted, but Tulsa hasn't grown as quickly because the frequency had been in 18th place prior to launch. Last month's 25-54 monthly had Gen X 4th in the market.

As a programmer, is it better for you and your station if you tunnel-vision your mindset to the stations' interests or can you use the corporate pressures as a positive way to motivate you and your troops?

People in radio are passionate about the business and many (like me) chose this career path at a very early age, as opposed to some industries that find people who aren't sure what they want to do. Successful managers are able to clearly articulate short and long-term company goals, work with their teams to develop a specific mission statement, hold their teams accountable for executing the strategy, reaching those goals and sharing the victory when they're achieved.

At Clear Channel, I would think that every cluster would understand the local goals as well as the company goals and recognize the benefit of being in an environment where we have the people, the tools and the resources necessary to succeed.

After working for the biggest radio groups and achieving considerable success, what kind of goals do you set for yourself nowadays?

Honestly, my goals are to continue to love what I do and spend as much time with my wife Patty and my kids (all of whom will be in college in the next three years ... the time truly has flown by).

Do you see yourself doing this a decade or two more from now ... or do you already have a plan on when to kick back and enjoy the fruits of your efforts?

I have never had a plan B. After meeting Wolfman Jack on the NBC tour when I was seven, I knew I wanted to be in radio, so any fleeting thoughts of doing something else were always temporary. As long as I love the people I work with and continue to get energized by what I do, I hope to continue working in the radio industry for a long time.