10 Questions with ... Dean Landsman

NAME:Dean Landsman TITLE:President STATION:Various Internet/Broadcast/Media and other clients COMPANY:Landsman Communications Group BORN:Brooklyn, NY 1952 RAISED:New York City

1a) Early influences?

New York Radio in the '50's and '60s: William B. Williams, Murray The K, Pete Myers (as well as his alter ego Big Daddy), B. Mitchell Reed, Jean Shepard, Symphony Sid, Gary Stevens, Klavan & Finch, Stan Z. Burns, Joe O'Brien, Scott Muni, Chuck Leonard., Dan Ingram, Herb Oscar Anderson, John Gambling, Jr., Charley Greer.

I heard 1010 WINS, WMCA ("Fabulous 57") and WABC in the salad days of early Top 40 Radio. I was exposed to WWRL (where I first heard the good Doctor, aka Jerry Boulding!), Frankie Crocker, the original WADO, Bob & Ray, Jack Lacy, Big Wilson, Brad Crandall ... I even recall the last of the Network morning shows, Don McNeill's Breakfast Club. There was also Drew Pearson with his 15-minute Sunday night show on WJRZ (or maybe it was WPAT-A), with a crackly signal and his famous muckraking newspaper column brought to life with his piercing delivery. I also recall listening to some radio drama on the old WABC, including Sunday night plays of Amos'n'Andy, which was followed by a free-form music show hosted by Scott Muni.

And the entire WBAI staff, most particularly Bob Fass, Steve Post and Larry Jacobson.

I also recall Barry Gray and Barry Farber, and Dan Clayton. Clayton could do extended weathercasts and make them sound fascinating. NYC radio in the mid-1950s made a permanent and life-patterning impression on me, with me to this very day.

1b) What was your first job in radio?

A kid growing up in NYC can't saunter over to the local station and do a Sunday shift. In the #1 market there are unions for everything, and tons of money at stake, even on weekend and late-night shifts. So I volunteered at listener-supported Pacifica Radio WBAI, smack dab in the middle of the NYC FM dial. It was the '60s, this was the voice of protest, I was happy. My on-air debut was during PM Drive in NYC. I also worked with the Music Director, and was the happiest teenager in the New York metropolitan area!

2) What led you to a career in radio? Was there a defining moment that made you realize "this is it"?

When I was three years old, there was a hit record of the day that had a series of false endings before it was through. I listened to legendary WNEW-A "Make Believe Ballroom" host William B. Williams play it, and as it ended do a smooth outro and keep the program flowing. I tore over to where my mother was and asked her, "How did he do it?! How does William B. know when the song ends?" Little did I know of such things as cues from board ops/engineers, backtime clocks, the ability to look at the turntable. My mother said, "That's his job." And there you have it. At three years old, that very moment, a lightbulb went on over my head (NB: same bulb would later say ON THE AIR) . If that's his job, I thought, that's clearly the job for me!

3) If you were just starting out in radio, knowing now what you didn't then, would you still do it?

Provided we are going (with this question) back to when I first started, yes.

If I were first getting into media now, I would seek a position with a forward-thinking company making use of the ubiquitous connectivity that is necessary for the total digital and wired (& wireless!) experience. Radio stations as stand-alone entities are a thing of the past. Digital integration is where it's at, and where I'd want to land if I were starting out. In fact, it is where I am today, as we in electronic media and entertainment are always enjoying new beginnings. Change is constant.

4a) Where do you see the Urban and Urban AC formats going?

As part of the digital universe there are numerous opportunities for growth and narrowcasting within identified networks (or product umbrellas). Just as there are lines of cars or detergents or clothing, integrated digital media allows multicasting and narrowcasting under a group umbrella. Branding and pinpoint programming enable larger audience bases and shared economic opportunity. The single-minded will perish; those who understand sharing and the limitless opportunity of broadband and multiple streams will flourish.

I also see interactivity as key. Then again, I was saying this to my Urban, Top 40, Country and other format radio clients years and years ago. The advances in media make it easier and more of a mandate than ever.

The argument that much of trends and fashion (and, of course, MUSIC) have their roots in the Urban arena is equally true in the techno/digital world.

4b) Is digital technology going to make an appreciable ratings difference?

Digital technology changes everything. PPM is digital technology. Ratings will be more of a reflection of actual listening habits than of canny tactical marketers "gaming the system." We had all sorts of fun with the diary methodology. That was using branding and perception to enhance reported listening. We took brand loyalty and incorporated it into our marketing. Now the product itself is more important than before. Program content and extended listening are more critical than ever.

Digital technology offers opportunity to exponentially increase and expand the user experience. Those who seize the opportunity will enjoy the rewards. Urban and Urban AC can and should participate in this change of methodology with a tactical plan to match the methodology, change with the times, and serve the audience in a manner that is in sync with the digital reality.

5) How you feel about being asked to wait on a record you hear until the research validates it?

Good programmers know when and how to follow their instincts. Anyone telling a programmer to wait has an agenda that has nothing to do with serving the listeners.

6) How do you feel about syndication? Does it affect significantly on the number of hours that stations have control over the music they play?

We are presently seeing the economic and ratings effect of radio not being programmed by and for the local market. Same goes for massive cutbacks in other departments. Bad financial reasoning always comes back to haunt those who make such decisions.

7) Because of callout research, are today's Urban and Urban AC programmers going to be slower in adding and playing new music?

Not those who understand programming, are in touch with their audiences, do their homework, have an ear, and understand that those who wait are often those who are left behind. The program content is a blend; a good programmer understands the elements of the blend that will make the station more appealing to the audience.

8) Of all the skills you have gained through the years, is there an area you'd like to improve?

There are some languages I'd like to learn; we live in a global world, communicating in native tongue would be helpful.

9) How do you account for and what effect do you feel the continuing ratings dominance some stations, such as KMJQ/Houston, have even with PPM, while others are suffering? Do you feel there are going to be new challengers from other formats?

Good radio will always do well. Programmers at top stations make adjustments for the market, for current conditions, and for ratings data acquisition methodology. Now more than ever it is about longer TSL and reasons to tune back to the station ... no matter what format one airs.

10) As you look back over your career ... any regrets? Missed opportunities?

There was one client station for which we generated incredible ratings and revenue. The market shares were getting to where we could have shown a 25 share. A quarter of all radio listening in the market in any given quarter-hour! But management changed, the new GM chose a different direction, we were shown the door. They never hit those numbers again. We could smell that 25, but we never got to take the bite.

What would people who think they know Dean Landsman be surprised to know about you?

Only others can answer this ... those who already know me. And I won't make the Kryptonite joke!

What's been your biggest disappointment in Radio today?

The disappointment began about 15 years or so ago when I met much resistance in creating and developing a web presence for clients. The joy and good fortune is that this got me much more active in Web pursuits, and now radio stations and companies are seeking our help in migrating to the web, or in maximizing their digital or web presence. Disappointment morphed into opportunity over time.

How do you feel about Arbitron's PPM eventually replacing the diary?

This digital enhancement of data gathering was inevitable. Ratings are meant to provide advertisers with a guide to listening habits in order to effectively and efficiently purchase time or space. The PPM will deliver a clearer picture and will not be swayed by gaming. Subliminal and unapparent listening will be reported under the PPM; it was lost in the diary method. This is a positive change; it will better serve the advertisers. Programmers face critical and tougher challenges in making their stations better, for longer TSL and re-tunes. I, for one, love a challenge ... and PPM offers distinct post-data-gathering analytical opportunities. Key, pinpoint data regarding tune-out and specific tune-in and re-tune timing and patterns are now available to programmers. This is vital information. In the right hands and minds, it can only help to improve strategy and the product.

What still gets you excited about radio?

Change and challenge are the constants of Radio. Now as we integrate radio into the present day big picture media mix the playing field is ripe with opportunity. Radio is immediate, topical, and can be ubiquitous. This is an exciting and stimulating time in the evolution of media, and radio remains a critical, viable element of the media mix.

Do you feel that Urban stations should support new artists?

Programmers select music as part of an overall content mix to attract and maintain audience. The programmer's duties and obligations are not issues of support in the sense of artists. If there is audience interest in artists, the programmer can offer information, scoop, gossip, any info of appeal to the listeners. Support of artists is an artist management issue, not an on-air broadcaster issue. There are avenues of digital webcasting and streaming opportunities available for artist support. These are highly opportune; they can and should be of great value to artists and artist management. It is important not to conflate these channels.