Podcast Movement 2017, Day Two: Radio Does Podcasting And More

Day Two

By PERRY MICHAEL SIMON in ANAHEIM: THURSDAY's schedule at PODCAST MOVEMENT 2017 in ANAHEIM included JACOBS MEDIA's "radio track" of sessions aimed at radio people looking to get into, or expand their presence in, podcasting, plus STEVE GOLDSTEIN's presentation on the details of podcast listening and a full range of sessions covering monetizing, marketing, and creative issues.

Broadcasters Confront The Future

The "radio track"-- dubbed "Broadcasters Meet Podcasters" -- kicked off with a panel of public and commercial radio executives, including iHEARTRADIO's CHRIS PETERSON, SANTA MONICA COLLEGE Triple A-News-Talk KCRW/SANTA MONICA-LOS ANGELES' JENNIFER FERRO, WESTWOOD ONE's KELLI HURLEY, and COX MEDIA GROUP's TIM CLARKE, joined by OTTO RADIO's REENITA MALHOTRA HORA (formerly at BLOOMBERG RADIO) and moderator AMPLIFI MEDIA's STEVE GOLDSTEIN (the former SAGA EVP/Group PD).  The panelists discussed their companies' approach to expanding into the podcast space, the low listenership for commercial radio content as podcasts, who's listening (FERRO describing the typical radio listener as "a bearded guy in a plaid shirt"), the challenge of pitching investment in digital while radio management is focused on the present quarter and fearing tune-out, repurposing material, and cross-promotion.

PETERSON departed from the conventional wisdom about repurposed radio content for on-demand listening, noting that iHEARTRADIO sees "huge" tune-in for podcast versions of morning shows, something CLARKE said he has experienced as well.  On cross-promotion, FERRO said that she has not found promoting podcasts on radio to be effective, since it is not something on which listeners can take immediate action ("it's not the best marketing tool.  Maybe it's good for awareness").

The Pubcaster's Perspective

Presentations from WNYC STUDIOS Chief Content Officer DEAN CAPPELLO and NPR ONE's TAMAR CHARNEY offered a look on how public radio has approached, and succeeded in, the podcast space.  "We're at the very, very beginning of something," CAPPELLO contended as he explained how WNYC and its parent NEW YORK PUBLIC RADIO News-Talk WNYC-A-F/NEW YORK have delineated themselves, with the radio station experiencing "modest growth" and focusing on local and regional content while WNYC STUDIOS is doing original national content and showing "explosive growth."  CAPPELLO explained WNYC's approach to programming, looking for "heart plus smarts plus urgency" and developing for podcasts while taking the material to radio "when it makes sense."  He advised companies to "take the long view," embrace talent and put them at the center (he described WNYC has having a "creator-led content shop" reputation), with a culture of listening, talking and collaborating.  

CAPPELLO set forth "five questions to ask," including "What are we trying to achieve?," "What unique qualities or assets do I have?," Do I have the right people and/or structure?," "How can I test and refine (and often fail)?," and "How do I launch in a way that breaks through?" ("It's not an accident when the things that break through break through").

CHARNEY's presentation, starting with a nod towards public radio's reputation as dull (with a picture of SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE's parody "Delicious Dish"), touted NPR's move into the future with more diverse programming and NPR ONE, "a play to get the listeners of the future listening to our content."  She explained the NPR ONE app and content, and how it generates data the network uses both to improve the app experience and, more significantly, how to make better content by measuring when people are listening and how passionate and engaged they are about the programming.

CHARNEY's advice for podcasters from NPR ONE data included the need to "start strong" ("you really can't catch up from a bad start to your podcast"), re-engaging the audience throughout the show, being free from the radio clock ("respect your audience's time... cut out the filler, and put out the best of the best as your podcast"), the recognition that artwork and titles matter, thinking about what audience you're seeking (national vs. local, for example), and considering what people want to hear.

How They Listen

While the RAB's ERICA FARBER talked to ENTERCOM Hot AC WLNK/CHARLOTTE and syndicated "BOB AND SHERI" co-host SHERI LYNCH, "SOMETHING YOU SHOULD KNOW" host MIKE CARRUTHERS, "SOUND OFF" podcast host and programmer/consultant MATT CUNDILL, and ENTERCOM Alternative KNDD (107.7 THE END)/SEATTLE's GREGR about their podcasting success, in another room, GOLDSTEIN and NUVOODOO's LEIGH JACOBS presented what GOLDSTEIN termed the "greatest hits" of research and video on "how people really listen to podcasts," including information from two studies -- one quantitative, one qualitative -- conducted by NUVOODOO.

76% of respondents listen to 2-6 podcasts a week, and GOLDSTEIN noted that regarding the small number of podcasts the average respondent consumes, "it's tough to get above that number."  Space for downloads on their phones turned out to be a significant issue, causing listeners to delete shows they haven't heard yet; subscription, in addition, is also an issue, with 56% subscribing to 2-6 per week.  Podcasts, GOLDSTEIN suggested, need to be in listeners' top 5.  As for discovery, social media and word of mouth from friends are the primary sources, with apps, other podcasts, and articles also playing a part.  Respondents also used several apps and methods to listen, from APPLE's iPhone app ("really sh-tty," one woman said) to STITCHER and TUNEIN to via the web.

40% of listeners download and listen to shows right away, with 23% saying they download but listen later, and 35% say they do both.  Most -- 54% -- choose what they want to listen to next, while 29% just listen to whatever comes up next in the list.  With so much content, though, 2/3 of respondents said that they can't keep up with all the shows; podcasts, GOLDSTEIN said, fit into people's active lives rather than the other way around.

Podcast ads got a big thumbs up, with 56% saying they pay attention to the ads, well above the performance of other media.

The Money Thing

A panel moderated by NPR's BRYAN MOFFETT and featuring TRITON DIGITAL's JOHN ROSSO, SCRIPPS' ROB MCCRACKEN, LIBSYN's ROB WALCH, and MARKET ENGINUITY's SARAH VAN MOSEL tackled the issue of podcast monetization, with a recurring theme being the medium's effectiveness.

The panel addressed issues like selling with CPMs, programmatic (not fitting the medium, with VAN MOSEL noting, "The things that make (podcasting) so hard to buy are paradoxically the things that make it so good"), scale (VAN MOSEL discussed how her company has created scale by aggregating smaller podcasts into sales "channels" and offering local geo-targeted advertising on national podcasts, taking advantage of improved ad insertion technology), and dynamic ad insertion (WALCH pointing out that current-episode live reads command a higher CPM than archival episodes).  Also, MCCRACKEN revealed that MIDROLL will shortly be releasing a "Choose Your Own Adventure"-style show for the AMAZON Echo from popular scripted podcast "HELLO FROM THE MAGIC TAVERN."

Asked by FRED JACOBS whether APPLE's podcast metrics changes will be a game-changer, MOFFATT said that it will be, and he hopes that the numbers drive the business from using downloads to listens as the primary metric; ROSSO said that it is game-changing in the sense that APPLE's attention is a sign of the industry's maturity whether or not the data is useful.

Aircheck Time

The radio track closed with a reprise of last year's hit "Aircheck Session" with TOM LEYKIS, JACOBS MEDIA's SETH RESLER, AMERICAN PUBLIC MEDIA "APM REPORTS"/"IN THE DARK" Senior Producer SAMARA FREEMARK, ABC RADIO "HOW DO WE FIX IT?" host RICHARD DAVIES, and "GRAMMAR GIRL" host MIGNON FOGARTY analyzing two podcasts, "ENGAGING STORY," a podcast about marriage hosted by MATT and REBECCA MUNDT, and "THE MIST," a show about "the intersection of drugs, cults, and cultures" hosted by KPBS/SAN DIEGO's NATE JOHN.  Both received a generally positive reception from the panel, although panelists didn't like the former's use of music beds and effects; the latter got plaudits for its clean, public-radio-style production and use of sound.

And the Rest

Among other topics addressed on various panels will be local podcasts, interviewing, legal issues, sponsorship, overcoming what's become the "true crime cliché," raising PATREON donations, the pros and cons of podcast networks, diversity, looks at "MISSING RICHARD SIMMONS" and ESPN's "30 FOR 30 PODCASTS," storytelling, and podcasting for social change.

The event runs through TOMORROW (8/24).  Find the full schedule here.

« see more Net News