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10 Questions with ... Mark Pennington & Lee Arnold
January 11, 2022
Have an opinion? Add your comment below. Mark Pennington- “Funny story! We initially settled on a different name and filed for the trademark. Eight months later and one week before launch, the trademark was reviewed and denied! So rather than wasting money, resources, and time appealing, we switched to “Hangar 33 Media,” which I already owned and was inspired by my passion for aviation.
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1. Let’s start with you Mark. Can you give us an overview of your radio career up to now?
My radio journey began in 1990 in Zanesville, Ohio, at WWJM. My stops along the way include legendary stations WLVQ in Columbus, Ohio, and WMMS “The Buzzard” in Cleveland, Ohio. My most recent 18-year stint programming the world-famous WRIF-FM in Detroit closed with me leading a team that won a Marconi Award in 2019. I am very proud of the ratings success that we achieved during my tenure at WRIF; we rarely fell from the #1 spot Persons 18-34, Persons 18-49, and Persons 25-54! I have been so fortunate to work for some brilliant programmers and amazing managers along the way; I have tried to learn something from all of them along the way.”
2. Now it’s your turn Lee. Can you give us an overview of your radio and music industry career up to now?
I started out spinning records to the entire 7th and 8th Grade student body at lunch hour at Lido Beach Jr. High School on Long Island. I was eleven years old then. That hooked me, though it laid dormant for a while. We moved to Cocoa Beach, Florida when I was 13. In 1966, I was a Hippie with a dream. I opened up an “Electric” Coffee House Music Venue, booking all the great Florida Garage Bands. I was 20. I then became a Concert Promoter. My first “real” job in radio grew out of that. A new radio station came on the air in 1967. I convinced the management that I was the man to DJ and Program it with something different than the local Top 40 Station was doing. Partly because I was willing to do this without a cash salary, but instead did it for $250/week in “TRADED OUT” Commercials for my Coffee House and Concert facility, and partly because of my incorrigible brashness, they hired me and I got to create the First Progressive Rock Formatted Radio Station in the South, WTAI in Cocoa Beach/Melbourne. To everyone’s surprise, playing music from the Albums that my friends and I loved and listened to, was a real format and we debuted at #3 12+ in the ratings. We owned Teens and 18-24 year olds. We were inventing the format as we went along, and it worked. In 1971 I began programming 100,000-watt WORJ in Orlando. We averaged a 7 share in the ratings, with a staff that included, Doug Van Allen, Bill McGathy, Paul Yeskel, Steve Mack, Neal Mirsky, Mike Lyons, Randy Molnar, Tom Webb and the First Female Rock Jock in Orlando, Hanna Skrobko (she and her husband, Roman, owned the cool record store in town). We were killers. While there, I started the First Progressive Radio Network of its kind, the “Southern Progressive Radio Network”, with stations in Orlando, of course, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Gainesville, Atlanta, and Raleigh. We did live broadcasts from BeeJay Recording Studios in Orlando with artists that ranged from Randy Newman to Leo Kottke, Lonnie Liston Smith, Atlanta Rhythm Section, Emmylou Harris, Gary Wright, and many more. We also did live broadcasts with bands like Poco, from sold-out concerts at the Sports Stadium, after I worked out an agreement with local promoter Morrie Eisenman to broadcast live concerts that had “Sold Out”. These were heady days, and our ratings in Orlando were the highest of any Progressive Rock Station in America. My journey from there took me to programming WGVL in Gainesville, launching 98ROCK in Tampa (where we drove the heritage rock station out of the format in one book), and then on to WAAF IN Worcester/Boston (our 10.3 Rating there was the highest major market AOR in the Country).
Then I tried something new. I was hired by RCA RECORDS to be the National Album Promotion Manager. I thought it was a logical move and the money was way better, than radio paid. Next, I partnered with Lee Abrams and Chris Squire in Onward Productions, and then went back to Radio in 1981 at 93 WQFM in Milwaukee (Drove another competitor out of the format with an 8.5 share) and then moved on once again. Doubleday Programming VP David Martin brought me to Detroit in 1985 to Program WLLZ, where Doug Podell was in place as my Music Director (also Hired Mark Thompson, Jerry Lubin, John O’Leary and Mike Halloran). I had a magical time in the Motor City. That was my final winning stop at “hands on” radio programming. I returned to Record Promotion as the only Album Radio independent promotion and marketing specialist concentrating on the Midwest. That professional phase of my life lasted for decades and I loved every minute of it, but PROGRAMMING Radio continued to be my “Jones”, so I picked up a client 16 years ago in St. Cloud, MN, and became their Programming Consultant (on the side). Happy to report that 16 years later, they are not only dear friends, but still clients, and market dominators.
3. Congrats to you both on the formation of your new Hangar 33 Media consultancy. Before we get into how this new company formed, why do you guys call it “Hangar 33 Media?”
Mark- Funny story! We initially settled on a different name and filed for the trademark. Eight months later and one week before launch, the trademark was reviewed and denied! So rather than wasting money, resources, and time appealing, we switched to “Hangar 33 Media,” which I already owned and was inspired by my passion for aviation.
4. Why did you decide to form this consultancy and how did the formation of Hangar 33 Media come about?
Mark- When I left WRIF after almost 18 years on New Year's Eve of 2019 (classy timing, by the way), it felt like the world was coming to an end. All the typical emotions crept in: sadness, anger, self-doubt, resentment, etc. THEN 2020 happened, and "literally" the world almost did end; I guess the ONLY upside of a global pandemic is "perspective." Lee and I had spoken for years about consulting together; the time was right to build something special from the ground up.
Lee- We both love programming Winning Radio Stations. There is NO BIGGER THRILL. The opportunity to do this as my main profession with my long-time friend and Programming Genius Mark Pennington couldn’t be passed up. Asking him to join me was one of the smartest things I’ve done.
5. What are some of the services you’ll provide to clients and how hands-on will you be?
Mark- Flexibility is the key here; we know each client has different needs based on many factors, including but not limited by market size, budget, staffing needs, etc. Our goal is to meet with clients, find out their goals and construct a unique plan to help them win. From big picture strategic analysis down to day-to-day music scheduling, talent coaching, or even merchandising, we have the flexibility to handle it. Having just recently programmed one of the country’s most iconic brands, I understand the day-to-day struggles broadcasters face each day.
Lee- Depends on the client’s needs. Everything from SOMEWHAT “hands-on” to VERY “hands-on”.
6. If client confidentiality is not an issue, can you tell us some of the early clients you are working with and how things are going so far?
Mark- Lee had already been working with “Black Diamond Broadcasting” in North Michigan and “Tri-County Broadcasting” in St. Cloud. I have had a blast thus far, sharing my programming perspective with the stations and working with their top-notch talent. I am even co-hosting a morning show on the classic rock station, WGFN “The Bear” in Traverse City, MI. When you step away from a bigger market and see the passion, dedication, and talent that the staff at these radio stations have, it’s inspirational.
Lee- **Tri-County Broadcasting in St. Cloud (16 years) Not only did I come there to be the consultant, but Owner Gary Hoppe gave me the opportunity to innovate on a new frequency we debuted 11 years ago. We call it The GOAT. We are a deep track, homage to progressive rock radio from the 60’s and 70’s. Our library is made up of thousands of songs from the “Golden Age of Progressive Rock Radio”. The payoff is, it has worked. We’ve severely eroded the upper demos from our competitors Classic Rock station, and created a new brand. A brand that started out with listeners, converted them to Super-Fans, and now after 11 years, they view themselves as part of our radio family, and they are.
The addition of Minnesota Radio Legend John Lassman as their Morning Personality on their Active Rock Station, Rockin’ 101 (WHMH), has pushed their market-leading Rocker to new heights.
**Black Diamond Broadcasting in Traverse City and upper Michigan (Going on 4 years) From Lake Michigan to Saginaw, the Black Diamond Broadcasting cluster of Active Rock, Classic Rock, Classic Hits, Country, Top 40, and more is a powerhouse. Proud to be part of that success.
7. Now let’s talk about the Rock format. What’s your take on Rock radio in general and what are some of the areas you can help a station or media outlet improve?
Mark- Rock radio is alive and well if executed properly. Rock has BIG core artists no matter what piece of the pie you are going after. I hope we can get away from pigeonholing our music to fit the “Silos” (Alternative, Active Rock, Classic Rock, Classic Hits, etc.) that we created that don’t matter to the audience. I always believed in starting at the very top; who are you targeting? There are 100 different factors that go into that equation, like market makeup, cluster strategies, etc. Find the center of your audience and build out from there. We also need to collectively take more calculated risks regarding music, talent, and promotions.
Lee- We love working with “Ma Pa”, O+Os and privately owned small groups. They are unique in their ability to “turn on a dime” and immediately respond to changing market situations. Things like COVID, Format Changes, Last Minute Events, etc. This means we deal directly with THE person that can say YES. This is a Giant Advantage, and we avail ourselves of this constantly to the advantage of our clients. There is nothing wrong with the “Rock Radio” format other than distant operators doing one size fits all programming and operations. There remain shining examples of dominant Rock Stations from coast to coast, in small markets and large. Localization is always key. What works in Philly doesn’t necessarily work in New York or Tampa.
8. You have also mentioned in your initial Press Release that ‘Audio entertainment in high demand and you want to formulate and help execute a plan to inspire content creation and long-term sustainable revenue success regardless of the platform.’ Can you elaborate on this?
Mark- The wise Bob Dylan once said, "The Times They Are A-Changin" most folks reading this are in the "Audio Entertainment" business, even if they don't want to label it as such. Radio, podcasting, satellite radio, music streaming services use the same fundamentals that radio has been implementing for decades: content creation, talent coaching, music curation, brand building, etc. For better or worse, the lines between all these are being blurred and will continue to be as we move even further towards an "A LA Carte" audio experience with our phones, connected cars, and smart in-home streaming devices. The end-user experience is being customized to their particular taste. Our goal is to be flexible enough to work with many different types of "Audio Entertainment” creators. We can help traditional radio stations win and guide podcasters with content creation, delivery, brand building, and show structure and consult a music streaming service with music scheduling and discovery.
9. Let’s switch gears to the music. Whether you are working with an Active or Classic Rock station, as a consultant, what are the keys to helping your client maximize an effective music presentation?
Lee- The right music, in the right rotations, presented by the right air aces, is key. In his book “Confessions of an Advertising Man”, legendary ad man David Ogilvy wrote, “Tolerate genius. My observation has been mediocre people recognize genius, resent it, and feel compelled to destroy it. There are few men (or women) of genius in media, but we need all we can find. Don’t destroy them. They lay golden eggs.” I have always hired the folks that other people think are un-hireable. They always win for me. When you mix in a Real Street Presence and Great Promotions, with real authenticity, it’s the recipe for success.
10. Finally, what do you guys like to do for fun and relaxation when you’re not in “radio work” mode?
Mark- The aviation bug bit me several years back; I completed my instrument training last year and am working on a flying video channel and podcast sometime this year. I have and always will love music of all types; I can’t wait to get back to no holds barred live concerts once this pesky pandemic is completely over.
Mark Pennington Flying!Lee- My passion is, and always has been music! I love nothing more than cranking it up. I’m also a pop culture junkie and newshound. My great good fortune is I’m married to my soulmate, Gaby. She not only shares my life passions, but she’s the one that introduced me to the life philosophy that has served me so well for the last 38 years. We have fun together.
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