10 Questions with ... Tim Closson

BRIEF CAREER SYNOPSIS:

Tim Closson is perhaps best known for his 14-years at WUBE/Cincinnati, programming the station from 1990-2004, and guiding WUBE to market domination among 25-54 year-olds, while achieving national prominence. During this time, Closson also served as VP/Programming for AMFM Chancellor, overseeing programming for Country radio stations In Los Angeles, Phoenix, San Francisco, Minneapolis, Detroit, Houston, and Washington DC. Prior to his arrival in Cincinnati, Closson held programming, music and on-air positions at KHAK/Cedar Rapids, IA and WAXX/Eau Claire, WI. In both markets, he helped the stations achieve strong ratings, and CMA Station of the Year awards. After 10 years away from the radio business, Closson returned in 2014, albeit in a different role: developing and managing Westwood One Country radio syndication partnerships, along with other programs the company provides.

1. Tim, let's begin by asking what induction into the Country Radio Hall of Fame means to you and what you think it says about your radio career.

It was a quite a big surprise because there's so many terrific, deserving individuals that can join this club. It's very humbling and I am very honored. I'm proud to say that I must have left a lasting impression through always trying to be very ethical and helpful. But I was also charged with very difficult tasks and worked in some areas where there have never been any blueprints in that area. I was on the front edge of consolidation and I believe I may have been the first programmer to run the same format on a market with two FMs as two different stations. Then, I was definitely the first major group Country leader. It's really truly an honor to be remembered as someone who's deserving of this level of achievement. I cared a lot about the business - loved it, ate it, breathed it. Always trying to do the best job I possibly could and was very pleased to know that I hopefully impacted and helped foster positive aspects whether it be through simple things such as an aircheck to help improve a part-time talent to help turn them into full-time, or help programmers on a bigger level. Learned a lot from all of those people too; that was the cool thing about it. A leader is only as good as the people around him/her. And I was very fortunate to always be surrounded by great people at every level from the start of my career in Country, which was at WAXX. That wasn't the start of my radio career; that was the start of my Country career. I was one of the lucky ones who got to work with not one, but four dream teams, and that’s pretty rare. 

2. Tell us about your first radio job.

WEVR/River Falls, WI. "The voice of the River Valley." I did everything. Cleaned the bathrooms, transmitter readings, you name it. I have a class radio telephone from the FCC. That was back in the old days when you had to actually use those skills. Funny enough, the other full-time individual at that station was another farm kid from River Falls named Boyd Huppert. Boyd and I were the do-it-all's. We were the copyrighters, the news guys, the on-air guys - we did it all. They even had us getting out to sell spots. Interestingly enough, today Boyd works for KARE 11 TV in Minneapolis St. Paul and contributes on occasion to the NBC Nightly News with a the kicker story at the end of the Newscast. I always get a proud smile when I see that, remembering my first radio job when we were kids side-by-side as 18-year-olds. We worked for guy named Jack Hanten. It was an interesting set-up because the station was a duplex on the other side, where his wife and his five kids lived. His wife and he ran the station. Jack had a temper and was rumored to have thrown a typewriter. It was a pretty interesting experience working there, and we’ll just say, “God bless them,” but I had to get out of there after five months and find another job.

3. What station or personality did you listen to most growing up and how did either - or both -influence you in pursuing a radio career.

On a very personal level, Lila, my mom graduated from Brown Institute Of Broadcasting before it was cool for women to do that, and unfortunately but fortunately, she got pregnant with my sister with her first husband at the time, and never went into radio. But she always talked about it and told me, "It would be a great career for you. I wish I would've gone into it." I graduated from high school early, at age 17. I thought I would go to college, but was taking some time to do a bunch of jobs. My mom told me that I wasn't amounting to anything really quick. Then, one day I walked into the bank she worked at and I said, "Mom, I just enrolled at Brown Institute." You should've seen her face and her smile. That school no longer exists, but it produced a ton of great broadcasters. As far as the radio thing, I loved music. I lived it. I thought I was going to be the next John Records Landecker or True Don Bleu. I would hear True Don Bleu on KDWB before he went to San Francisco. That was one of the rockin' stations. Then there was John Hines (who I later worked with while we were both associated with K102) and Charlie Bush on KSTP. Man, I wanted to do that. I thought, “What a cool thing.” I never quite imagined that it would all start at a station that played in the dairy farm at 5 o’clock in the morning while we’re milking cows at KDHL/Faribault MN. That was the first station I ever appeared on as a Happy Hustler 4-H member when I had a grand champion calf at the Rice country fair. They interviewed me on KDHL, so that was my first radio appearance. Funny enough, that station is part of my region now and I talked to the PD this week. I had him laughing. I said, “So, what about the green giant plant? Is that still there? I used to deliver sweet corn there.” Then, when I told him the name of our 4-H club, and asked if the picture of Dean Curtis, who’s in the Farm Directors Hall Of Fame, is still up at the station and he said, “Absolutely.” Dean Curtis used to love to interview my mom, and mom loved it because that gave her a radio fix.

4. Mentors - everybody has a few of them. Who was it for you that helped you, challenged you and made you believe you could actually make this a career?

I had my third radio job in my hometown KYMN/Northfield, MN. I was working for the General Manager at that time, Wayne Eddy and within about four months of time, he had put together a deal to buy the station from the current owner. I was the last one in the door, and he called me into his office one day and said, "Tim, I just bought the station and I've got to make some cuts. I'm gonna have to let you go." I thought, "Oh my God, I'm fired from my hometown? This is the end of my radio career." He looked across the desk and said "Tim, this will be the best thing that ever happened to you. Trust me." I was like, "Yeah, right. No way." But, it was. Two weeks later, I started at WAXX/Eau Claire. Tim Wilson took the leap of faith on me and hired me. I remember seeing a newsletter about WAXX/Eau Claire personality Tim Wilson winning CMA Personality Of The Year. I thought, “Wow! How cool is that? One of the people in our company won that. That would be really cool one day to win that, or be a part of that” Lo and behold, about six months, later Tim Wilson hired me for overnights on WAXX/Eau Claire. Thus, I was launched into my first true dream team. I was with Tim, who was a big believer in airchecks; he shaped and molded me as a personality. He was definitely one of my mentors. He taught me how to do good radio on-air. He also taught me how to work off the air. He taught me how to really do great work in public, how to conduct yourself in public at things like Conclave and CRS, and how to work with the record companies. He would give me opportunities in little bits at a time, and so would Bob Holtan the station manager, as well as Marty Green, the sales manager, who is now my father-in-law, and Bert O'Brien, who's known as "The Bear" now at WNCY (Y100)/Green Bay. Tim moved me up to nights pretty quickly, and we had Toni Lynn in the afternoon, and Tim did middays. The four of us were truly a dream team - we knew how to work a crowd. WAXX/Eau Claire was pulling 30 shares, I kid you not. We were knocking it down. Keep in mind; this was a 100,000-watt radio station on a 2,000 foot tower that was located towards center of the state. We covered two-thirds of the state of Wisconsin; it was a blow torch. We owned it. With the leadership there we had a ball. We were a family. That lasted a pretty good number of years. Bert eventually left. Eau Claire wasn't the greatest paying city, but that's where I was married in 1985 and met the love of my life. One of my other mentors was part of my second dream team; Mary Quass. She hired me for my first programming job in Cedar Rapids because in Eau Claire, Tim was there, so I was never going to program. Mary gave me my first shot - she was the General Manager and owner. That was my second dream team. The first night, when I was driving to town, I called up the Music Director to come meet me for a beer; It was Jeff Winfield, who is currently the head of programming at NRG media. We had Jeff and I, and I stole Dawn Johnson who is now Dawn Woodburn and Jeff Winfield's long-time wife and mother of their children, from Eau Claire. She was a part-timer in Eau Claire. So, we had another dream team. The station had never been #1 12-plus and 25-54, and we did it in the first book, and crushed it. We annihilated the market, and swept the CMA Awards - That's when they did the CMA Awards for GM, MD, and station. We won all four of them. We were only there not even two years. The opportunity in Cincinnati was too good to pass up. George Toulus came and found me; I wasn't looking for the job. George and Joel Raab. Joel was a consultant, and George had just hired him. WUBE/Cincinnati was in a deep hole at that time.

5. When you got to WUBE, where was it as a radio station, and what was necessary to put it in a competitive, then dominating situation

WUBE/Cincinnati was #13 when I got there. I think it was going through some typical culture changes. There were some talented folks there, but there were also folks just going through the motions. I really had to assess everything. It needed a relaunch and rebrand. Joel, George, and I had envisioned B105 and branding it. They had the ball rolling before I got there. You hated to throw heritage calls like WUBE away, but they were still the station's call letters. It was given a face lift, a moniker and a live mascot to breathe some life into the station. We also took a look at what we were doing in the community, and how to get deeply involved within Cincinnati. That's how our legendary "B105 Chili Fest" was born, as well as our legendary New Artist Stage at Taste of Cincinnati. We had a Spring event, and we had a Fall event. We had to build some marquee events to drive Country listenership and the audience. We had to build a new brand and listenership at the station. We had to once again develop another dream team and a new family, which we did pretty quickly. The existing parts there were extremely important and useful in the form of fellow Hall-of-Famer Duke Hamilton and Paul O'Brien, both of which were former Program Directors of WUBE/Cincinnati. We also had Bill Whyte. Bill decided after about a year or so to leave. Bill is also in the Hall of Fame, and he wasn't a fan of airchecks, let's just say that. While he left for greener pastures, it allowed us to put together Jim Fox and Bubba Bo. Jim was the long-time 'King of WKRQ (Q102)/Cincinnati,' a well-known personality. He had outlived that time, and they moved him over to WKRC/Cincinnati, the AM station, where he was miserable. We had the chance to grab him. George, my General Manager, really tested me on my decision on Bill's replacement. We looked at a lot of people. He tested my fortitude, which was something he was really good at that. George would really make you think if you were making the right decision or not. I made the decision to bring in Bill [White] and Eric Boulanger. At the station, we called him "Bubba," because he was a 'Bubba'-looking guy. At the time, Bill Clinton was running for office, and he was called "Bubba" as a nickname, and I was like, "That's it! It's gonna be Fox and Bubba on the air." We branded the morning show "Fox and Bubba," and I brought in Patti Marshall as my Asst. Program Director from Tallahassee, FL. She still today is the Operations Manager. So, Duke, Patti, Bill, Fox and Bubba, and I went away with another dream team. We rode the coattails of the Country music boom, but I knew that boom was there - it just happened late in Cincinnati because things were behind a little bit. We pretty quickly turned the thing around as a team with the help of George and Joel. We had a lot of fun. Our "Taste of Cincinnati" Stage and our Chili Fest became legendary in the record world. The record communities wanted to get their new act on one of those stages or they weren't not gonna be anybody. We can basically give you a 'who's who' that was on those stages. Before they were hits, people got to see for free folks like Trisha Yearwood, Mark Chesnutt, Martina McBride, Billy Ray Cyrus, The Dixie Chicks, Rascal Flatts, Little Texas, and on, and on, and on. I could sit here and name a bunch of them. For me, that was a big, fun part of the business. I always had a love for the music, through my time at WAXX, I used to host bus trips to Nashville for Fan Fair and stuff like that. I really got to become a "musicologist" on Country; to understand it, know it, the history of it, and just know a lot about it. I'm pretty proud to say that I think I have a decent ear, too. Joel Raab once said he always loved watching what I didn't play because he know that probably wasn't gonna be a hit.

6. We're in an era of a lot of RVPPs and EVPPs - who have a large number of stations they oversee- but you were really one of the first guys to be in that position, while you were with Chancellor 20 years ago - what did you hope to accomplish with the format on a national level back then? How much company synergy were you able to create?

Our goal was to form partnership to be able to help all three parties involved: our company, the record company, and the artist. I always felt it was important to develop strong relationships with the record companies so that you had some trust and better opportunity to get more things for your radio stations. Thus, I felt that, in my position, we could get more things for our company, but at the same time, be able to deliver back - to make an equal playing field, and everything above board; The first thing we did was put John Sebastian at KZLA/Los Angeles. I had Tim Roberts in place at KFAN and KNEW, and I think we had Minneapolis at that time, so we had Gregg Swedberg at K102, and Bob Wood at WBOB/Jacksonville for a brief period of time. We had Patti and I at Cincinnati, and we had Mac Daniels at WMZQ/Washington, D.C. We had Jeff Garrison at KMLE/ Phoenix. A little later, coming into the fold was KKBQ (93Q)/Houston with Dean Hallam. By that time, KZLA was out of the fold, so there were a couple of moving parts. We also had W4 in Detroit, too. We didn't have all of them at the same time, necessarily, but most of them we had. A couple moved out while new ones moved in. We always had about five stations at a time. I remember our first CRS as a group; it was Chancellor. We decided to do our own taping session, which had never been done before. Only the CRS taping had been done. We told labels to bring their artists because they were getting the biggest radio stations in America in one place, and boy, did they come, and boy, did we screw that thing up. We weren't quite prepared for it, but it was a learning experience and a lot of fun. Everyone kind of laughed it off. We still got some good stuff from it. We got much better on how to do things as time went on. One of the things we decided to do was try to build those brand partnerships, and we were the first group to bring our whole group of PD's into Nashville to have meetings with the labels, and have them showcase their wears for us, so that we knew what their initiatives would be for that year. When you get guys like Dean Hallam, Jeff Garrison, John Sebastian, Tim Roberts, Gregg Swedberg, Patti Marshall, Mac Daniels, and Mick Anselmo, who represented the General Managers for our company. Mick and I herded the cats together. We got some great stories from some of those sessions, and some amazing things happened. One of the most amazing was when this unknown kid was raw as can be, and had just written a song, "I'm Gonna Miss Her," when we were at Tim DuBois' cabin back in the woods somewhere, and he played us this song. It was Brad Paisley. Our goal was to find acts that made us put our hands in the middle. That was our model; can you do hands in the middle for this? And every hand came into the middle for that one. Then, we also had some very interesting things happen like Dean Hallam and Tim DuBois getting in an argument across the table from each other in front of everyone. It was a classic. We had a group of strong personalities so to get a "hands in the middle" with that group of people was a very big thing. We were able to come together on quite a few things, like we were instrumental in LeAnn Womack, Brad Paisley, Sara Evans, Montgomery Gentry, and Rascal Flatts. We had a pretty good run with folks that we formed partnerships with at the label over these acts and tried to make sure that everything was going both ways. As far as I know, we were the first major synergistic force to pull together that type of a group of stations and group of people to try to get the partnerships. We were writing a book that had never been written before. At the end of the day, we all knew that everybody was passionate about our beliefs and music, and that's something we all respected about each other. We allowed everybody to have their beliefs; we never made it a certain way. We tried to get everybody to believe in, and know that it would be a good thing in the end. It didn't come without a few bumps. I remember John [Sebastian] when I was first brought in. John was like, "Who the heck are you?" And I had to tell him, "Look, John, I'm not telling you. I'm just saying here is our plan that we're hoping to work together on." Eventually, John came back a year later and said, "Tim, you were so right." It was really cool to have him come back and say that. It was nice to know that what I was trying to do impacted him in a positive manner. Trying to communicate some of these things, at the time, with strong-willed individuals that had great beliefs of their own was very interesting. Being surrounded by such talented people makes me proud to talk about that group. To this day, it still stands up as the "best of the best." Patti Marshall is still running the whole group for Hubbard in Cincinnati as Operations Manager. Mac Daniels is doing great in Dallas. Garrison is doing awesome in San Antonio. If Dean were still alive, I think he'd be doing awesome in some place. John was always amazing. Gregg keeps the wheel turning at 102. He keeps that station on track, and keeps doing fantastic. Tim Roberts, need I say more? I can't be more proud of him as well. He's one guy I hired twice. I hired Tim more than I hired anybody else. I wasn't sure Tim was going to let me hire him again, either!

7. A lot of people have expressed concern about where the next generation of new, great air personalities will come from. Where do you think the next great radio stars will come from, with fewer and fewer "farm team" type opportunities anymore?

My job no longer exists - hardly at all - meaning that overnight disc jockey at WAXX being airchecked by a guy like Tim Wilson to shape and mold me into, frankly, an award-winning personality - I wasn't a half-bad disc jockey back in my day, believe it or not. Those opportunities are much fewer and more far between than ever before, and that does concern me. But there's still an opportunity to break into this business. If you have a love for music, you just have to go about it a little bit differently than it used to be. You've got to find the right people to mentor you. That's going to be the biggest key of all. Part of the problem that I see today is that you've got a Program Director wearing seven hats instead of one, and because of that, the opportunity to spend some of that individual one-on-one time is just not available; that's another big concern. I don't know how some of these guys do it. I'm fortunate enough to talk to a bunch of Programmers, Operations guys, and General Managers in my current role, and I see it all the time. I don't take it personally when I don't get a phone call or email from somebody for months on end because I know they have no time, and it's a shame. I hope the good talent that is out there continues, and the stations and groups that do believe in local talent - even if it's a syndicated show - I encourage stations to plug a producer in there locally to make that thing home and sound like a local show. There are ways to make it sound like your station and your market, and that's an opportunity for that next talent to learn and grow, and get it from the inside. Those are places we may have to look - Opportunities like that. Candidly, some of the best form of flattery is to copy. If you're in there every day with the talented show trying to help make them sound great locally, it has got to rub off on you eventually.

8. Having been in the format for years - and then away from it for about 10 years - let's talk about where the format is going -What direction do you see it heading -are the pop, hip-hop and rock influences here to stay?

A decade away, and boy, has the business changed. Not only from a musical standpoint, but the Internet and social media was not even present when I left at the end of 2004, and now it's a main state at radio stations. You can't get a radio job unless you're practically a social media maven; that's one aspect of it. Musically, while it is different, it's not all that different. I know that's speaking out of both sides of my mouth, but you can hear the hits. The hits still happen. I'll take Thomas Rhett's song from last year, "Die A Happy Man." That's a Country hit - a smash. They still jump out of the radio. There's more ear candy, but we had our share of ear candy back when I was programming, too. The music has changed slightly. It was funny, WIL/St. Louis PD Greg Mozingo posted some photos from a showcase event that RCA Records had in 1991 with Eddie London. In every era, you're going to have some songs that are there to fill a space because the space needs to be filled, but you're going to have some that are going to be big hits for the format. You hope that you'll find a couple that are going to be like "Mountain Music" and "It's Your Love" was to the format. From every era, there are signature songs that still ring true today. Garth Brooks' "Much Too Young To Feel This Old" and "Thunder Rolls" to name a few more. Overall, I could capsulize the whole thing by saying one of the coolest things I miss today that I don't get any more of what I used to love: being involved with the music, and helping to be a taste maker. I was very passionate about that. I miss that. It's very important today that you still have taste makers in the format that help develop the taste for the format, and to create the hits for the format.

9. On a broader level, let's discuss radio. You were away from the business for a decade - now you're involved again, but not in the programming area. Talk about any differences in listening habits, and your view of radio while you were no longer in it.

I have to be honest, I completely walked away at the end of 2004 for about four to five years. I didn't use radio. We already had the ability to build your own playlist, so I did. Whenever I wanted music, I had my own radio station to listen to, and it was exactly what I wanted to hear. I didn't have anybody to answer to but my wife, and fortunately, she likes a lot of the same things I do, so it was not a problem. I really got out of the business. It was a long run - It was 22 years in Country, with 14 of that at B105 and the other six I spent on an airplane. Consolidation had worn on me, on the bad side of it. I'd been on the good side, then all of a sudden, I was on the bad side of it. I had a General Manager that didn't pick me, and I didn't pick him. We still tolerated one another for three years. It's pretty impressive that either of us lasted that long. I started to gravitate back towards it. I did nose around at first in a couple of things. I looked around at opportunities for the first few years. I didn't have a lot of people reach out, but that's okay. I was busy developing other careers in my life, which I still dabble in and enjoy. I am a licensed realtor in Ohio. I'm a high school football official. I did some things that I would've never gotten to do if I stayed in radio. When you're involved with radio, you do a lot with events. I made a local connection with Hart Productions, and they hired me to help sell and manage their consumer trade shows. For two years, I worked in selling and help them organize the Cincinnati Travel Sports and Boat Show, the Home and Garden Show, the Hunting and Fishing Show, and more. It gave me a lot of great experience. I also went back into the media business by trying cable as a seller, which was a great learning experience. I owned a Curves franchise with my wife. During those 10 years away from radio, I learned about a lot of different aspects of business. All of those things, along with my radio career, lead me back to Westwood One. It worked perfectly. I had all the experience that I was able to plug into the Westwood One job, and just run. I didn't need to be trained other than on their systems. From a standpoint of listening, I did start to gravitate back into it, and got a feel for some of the things that were happening at radio. I did get into a couple other formats for a while as a listener, but then I found myself getting excited about the Country format again a couple years ago. I was looking to get back into radio. I found that I did really well at Time Warner, and I'm happy to say that I was a National MVP (mission, values, and performance) there in 2012. I was in the company's top 2%, not selling, just within every department. Time Warner was very good at celebrating their most valuable players. I had a phenomenal year, and got to do well there. I've always excelled at every career I did, including real estate. When I was faced with having to reinvent myself, like when Michelle and I made the decision to not pursue another radio job and allow our kids grow up in Cincinnati, that was a conscious decision. It wasn't like anyone wasn't going to hire me, it was that I wasn't for hire. We wanted our kids to grow up in one place, but it scared the hell out of me. Radio was all I knew; it wasn't like you could go and drive Uber then! But now I have a backup plan. I'll still keep my driver's license, real estate license, and my official's license up to date so that I've got a backup plan!

10. What has been you proudest moment in radio - could be an off-air, or, on-air moment?

One of the proudest moments of my career was seeing the look on the kids' faces at Ronald McDonald House when I presented my first and second check for my full marathon for $10,000. I ran the full marathon in Cincinnati in 2001 and 2003. Another proud moment was getting the U.S. Marine Corps Commemorative Coin For Life for working Toys For Tots. Those are a couple others that stand out. I would also say, while I won CMA Awards at WAXX, and it was a fantastic experience there, as well as WUBE, but that experience as a Program Director and all of us winning the 1990 CMA Awards. The whole team drove in a giant van to Nashville for the Awards. It was very cool and rewarding. It's hard to pinpoint on this. I'm probably missing something that was even more important than any of the rest, but right in this moment, I can't really think of it. I am very proud to be associated with Country radio and the music from April 1, 1982 through the end of 2004, and to be able to come back and be associated with Country music again as well as a ground-breaking opportunity, it's very fulfilling. I'm very proud of this format, and I still love it. I walked away from it for a while, but that may have been a good thing. It brought me back with a new, fresh perspective.