10 Questions with ... Sue Wilson

BRIEF CAREER SYNOPSIS:

A native of Akron, OH Sue Wilson has programmed Rubber City Radio Country WQMX/Akron since 2006, and is now considered one of Country radio's top programmers, and an innovator. Until recently, Wilson also co-hosted mornings on WQMX, before expanding her off-air role to oversight of Rubber City Radio's four-station cluster. WQMX was Wilson's first Country radio gig, but she came well prepared, with prior programming experience in AC, Hot AC, Christian, and consulting stations on a national basis, as part of Mike McVay's firm. Wilson's more than 30 years in radio include responsibilities as air personality, music director, research director, consultant and voice over talent. Here, she shares thoughts on Country radio compared to other formats, the state of Country music in 2017, challenges she faced as a young, female programmer in a male dominated field, and how Country radio can manage a firehose of new music coming at it every week, with ever-tightening playlists.

1. Sue, thanks for taking the time for "10 Questions!" Let's start with your responsibilities at Rubber City Radio/Akron. You're VP/ Operations, WQMX PD, and you oversee four stations - that's a full plate. How does it shake out on the day-to-day?

My main day-to-day responsibilities are focused on WQMX, but I do have input and oversight of the operations of all our stations. We have have Program Directors over each of our other 3 stations, so I just offer help where I can, especially in strategic planning. For me, one of the more important roles is mentoring younger people. So again, WQMX takes a bulk of my time, especially when I am in an on-air role, and I'm just a resource for the other stations as needed.

2. You've been programming WQMX since 2006, after coming to the format and Akron from Cleveland - can you talk about Akron, first as a Country market, then secondly, can you explain how it separates itself as a unique radio market from Cleveland, which is just 40 miles North of you?

I grew up in Akron, so I've been fortunate enough, to not have traveled all around chasing the radio jobs. I've spent my entire career in Northeast Ohio, first Cleveland and now Akron. When I began my programming career in Cleveland in '87, I noticed real quickly I wasn't listening to Akron radio as much. It's like you don't listen to market down. But when I left Cleveland radio to program 'QMX, I thought-- "Wow...this is a harder gig, because not only am I programming against my competitors here in Akron, , but also all these signals coming in from Cleveland. "

For Country, there's basically just two stations in our area: WQMX out of Akron and WGAR/Cleveland. We have some outside signals, but If you are a Country fan, you have your buttons set to 99.5 and 94.9, and people go back and forth but we are the only country station in Akron and it's a great market for Country. We had at heritage AM Country station here, WSLR, back in the day that built a solid country fan base. It is where my late husband, Phil Cordle used to work, along with other legendary personalities like Country Hall of Famer Jaybird Drennan. When WQMX went country 25 years ago, (we're 25 years old coming up in 2018) the market was ready for a country station on FM. WQMX has always done really well even prior to me getting here. Ohio in general is surprisingly solid for country music. While Cleveland, because it's a bigger city that may tend to be lean liberal and have less of a traditional country feel, south of Cleveland gets rural.

3. If I'm not mistaken, WQMX was your first-ever Country PD gig, and now you're fully established in this format. What surprised you about Country radio, and what have been the biggest changes in the format since you arrived in 2006?

I loved the format and Country music well before I started at WQMX so programming country felt like a natural fit. As I mentioned, when I started dating my husband back then, he was in Country radio and I didn't think our relationship was never gonna work - because I wasn't really open to all this country twangy music he loved! Then, he took me to a Willie Nelson concert, and I was like, "Wow." the musicianship - the pickers and the players -this is some great stuff and I slowly became a fan of the format. For most of the 90s, when I was in AC radio, we were playing a lot of the cross-overs- Faith Hill, Rascal Flatts, and Martina [McBride] So when I came to"QMX, I found I was programming it similarly to an AC. Akron is a diary market so I focused on getting long time spent listening. The biggest difference in the format then and now is country was more current based, and still is, and the what most surprised me was the chart system-- how songs move faster up and then down on the charts. And the whole labels negotiating for the #1 was/is a lot different than pop radio. The rotations too, are tighter, not as tight as Top 40, by any means, but tighter than where I was in gold based AC radio. And finally, the evolution over these last ten years, in the variety of genres that have come into the format. First it was a more traditional, and now it's become such a melting pot of all different genres and styles.

I think one of the most challenging differences is the expectation to "be everything" to a country audience, especially if you are the only country station in the market. In radio terms - you try to play "the favorites of yesterday and today." But, so much of our format's music now is from the last 5-10 years and it is so great and tests so well, you have to make a decision on how old your gold is -since there is such a solid recurrent and recent gold base. Back in my very early AC days we'd say, "Okay, we're going to stop playing these old Neil Diamond records and start playing Elton John." There was a schism in the eras and we moved on. But in country it is harder to do that. We have a difficult time knowing when to cut it off - Can we still play Brooks & Dunn? Alan Jackson? 90's country? It's just tough. There's not room for it all. And when you are the only country format, listeners want you to play the old and the new. There's so much great music, that we have to limit the gold and we are mostly focusing on the last 10-15 years.

4. Most, if not all, of your career has been in Ohio, and the last 11-12 years have been there in Akron. I always like to ask people who've spent many years in the same market at the same station if that was the plan, or did becoming a station/market fixture happen more organically?

Probably organically; my whole family's here. Sometimes, I've thought if I were a man with a wife that would've said, "Yeah, I can help you with the kids, and we can move everywhere, and I will take the main job of raising the kids," but, being a woman PD and a mom and, eventually, a single mom after my husband died, it was more challenging for me to uproot the kids and go somewhere on my own. My family became so crucial to helping me with child care and everything else. I don't want to play the gender card, but I think 20 years ago, there were many fewer women programming, especially in AC. I would go to the NABs, and I'd be one of two women in the room, and a bunch of men were sitting around, making decisions about what women want to hear on the radio. In Rock radio, there were almost more women PDs back then than there were in AC radio, which I found interesting. So I was fortunate; I had a great support system here, and I had jobs that were really, really good. I was at WDOK in Cleveland for 12 years, then, I worked for McVay Media, and he was Cleveland-based. Then, I get a call from Salem and began my stint in Christian radio, and then WQMX--all in this area! One opportunity led to another without me having to move.

5. You have become one of the format's respected programmers, and this year, you received a nomination for the inaugural "Innovation In Music Awards." Can you describe what it meant to be recognized as an innovative programmer in our format?

I always look at other people and think, "Oh, they're so much smarter than me," so, that's very kind of you to say. I look at people, like Shelly Easton - strong women in the format like the Becky Brenners and the Beverlee Brannigans or Lisa McKays- women like that - and I consider them the innovators. I have to credit the fact that I work for a company that gives me room. The president of our company, Thom Mandel is really great to work for. It's so unusual to be in this local ownership world, and I guess as long as the ratings are good, he's letting us continue to do our thing.

I love we are able to "hear" a record and believe it's going to be a hit (although I've missed a few too) and to be able to go out on a song we believe in--even if we are one of the few on it--that's cool. We are very fortunate to get to do that and the track record is mostly good. It's not necessarily being an innovator; it's following your gut and doing a little bit of research, knowing your market really well and being given room to stretch.

6. Right now, in the news, we're hearing horrible revelations about how women have been treated by men in positions of authority - this is probably not limited to the entertainment industry - but, we know radio has historically been slower to advance females to positions of leadership and responsibility. Are you comfortable sharing any challenges you had to overcome to get to your current role? As a respected leader not only at your radio station, but in this industry. Also, what advice can you impart to females in our biz (radio, music) who aspire to reach leadership roles?

I've had a few #MeToo moments, no doubt. I almost feel like I don't really have the authority to say #MeToo when mine weren't as horrible as so many that I've read about. And I personally know women who have experienced worse. But I will say I've had a lot of condescension over the years, and a lot of times where I didn't feel as though my opinion wasn't valued, strictly because of my gender. I remember, early in my programming career at the AC station in Cleveland, it was our first #1 book. We took the station from 'worst-to-first' and it was a story, and we had a big client party to celebrate. I was invited by the owner of the company to get up and make a speech about my team, and talk to the advertisers and ad agencies reps who were present. Lots of powerful clients were in the room . I said a few things, and one of the Presidents of a big Cleveland ad agency yells out: , "And, she's got great legs, too!" It totally took the wind out of my sails. You don't quite know how to continue with that - it was immediate anger. I sailed right by it and continued. Another time, I was making a point again to a roomful of men, and a sales guy wanted to get a bad promotion on the air and it was a fight--and I was trying to stand up for the programming, against the sales manager. I was making strong statements, and one of his comments was, "Well, look at you! You look so cute when you get mad." At that point, I was like, "Would you be saying this if it were 'John Smith?'" If I were a man, would you tell me how cute I am? As I gained more experience, I came up with better answers. It was and still is the typical, 'a man is strong, when he speaks up, but a woman is a bitch.' I've had a lot of moments like that, but for the most part-- I have also been blessed to work with really "evolved men" who saw potential in me and gave me a chance. I'm very grateful for the people who put me in the position and gave me the break. As far as advice, stay strong and hold your ground. Learn how to ask for a raise and don't be afraid to negotiate, which seems to be tougher for some women. I'd tell women now that these strong women speaking out now are breaking the barriers and allowing you to speak...and you don't have to put up with the crap anymore. . While it's tempting to put up a real bitchy front, just be you. You can be a very giving and loving and understanding and nurturing person, whether you're a man or a female and still be strong. I think I had an edge, being both a woman and a mom, so much of what I employ raising children is true of the office, because often it's really just a bunch of children you're dealing with! Some of my mom skills have worked with men making stupid statements, as well as with managing a team.

7. Somewhat related - you have a unique situation at WQMX in that the musical brain trust is 100% female. You and your MD, Jody Wheatley, are evaluating songs and making music decisions for the station, the perennial market leader. You ladies obviously know what you're doing, so here's the $64,000 question: As females in decision-making roles, who are also in the format demo, why is it so hard for us to break and establish new female acts? What can we do better to make this happen?

I'm sitting here, looking at Sunday night's Mediabase chart, and there's 50 songs on it, and five of them are women: Kelsea [Ballerini], Miranda [Lambert], Lauren [Alaina], Lindsay [Ell], and Danielle [Bradbery]. That is barely 10%. For me and for Jody, we often just say, "I believe in this record - it's a great record.

I think with women getting airplay, it's a matter of odds, it's a numbers thing. There are FAR more men than women being signed and worked to radio --by a LOT. So those few songs by women have to be really good--better-than the other ones. The bar is higher for women. But right now there are some really great women with great songs: Cam, Jillian [Jacqueline], Ashley McBryde, Lindsay Ell, Maren...and many more- so, we sit here and think "This song is great - it practically brought me to tears; we're going to have to play this." Then, we say, "Oh, wait. But, these other 5 songs are higher on the chart." 4 are by superstars...what is the best song for these 2 slots. There are so many things to consider when you are adding songs every week--on top of wanting to give the break to one of these great female artists. In the end it is about the song. But it is a problem and I do think, we may have to just step out and start playing some of these great female artists --if it's song that you believe is a really good song. And then on the label side--don't give up on them . I feel like they give them a song and then walk away--I want to hear more from Aubrie Sellers, Where's Mickey Guyton? These amazing talented women need more development. Not just one and done. Do we all play part? We're all a little bit guilty. I don't have the answer; I know that Jody and I do make the effort to say, "We're going to do this" we are going to play this". We're going to add it even if nobody else is." We went on this Lauren Alaina record, and it's doing really well for us, even though it's taking awhile and sitting at 44. So, sometimes I think - if you just play a song for a while and expose it - it will research, (if its a good song) . But for women in particular, I think we need to -have to step out a little further...but we struggle with "is it right to play a song just because it's from a female artist if there is any chance it is not the best song?" We can't be guilty of reverse sexism!

8. You and I have traded emails before, and you've expressed concern over the sheer volume of songs PDs/MDs are asked to consider. Can you discuss the concerns here? A simple answer would be to play more currents, but it's really not that easy. What do you think labels should do differently, or what should they understand more about your realities when hitting you up for airplay?

They've got a job to do, and we've got a job to do. They're a little bit different, but we all have similar goals - to make money, get ratings, and gain exposure for the artists and songs - but, how we get there is different. We know that there's a certain amount of time that the average person spends listening to the radio in your market; if you've got them for 15-20 minutes on a commute to work and another 20 on the way home, how many songs are they going to hear? It's a mathematical thing; you add a new record, you have to play it a lot before the average person is gonna hear it two or three times a week and determine they like it. So when we have all this music the answer isn't just "Play more songs," it's just not feasible, because it takes frequency and saturation, as we know to make these songs familiar. Plus you still have to play recurrents and gold. I just don't know if there's an understanding of all that. And then there is the whole life of a song thing-- while some songs stall, others by big stars run up the chart so fast the listener hasn't even had the chance to become familiar. By the time the label is done with the song, the song is just starting to test. Once we commit to a song, we are , committed months on a record; that takes a slot, one of your 25-30 slots. We just can't play them all, and get them exposed, and turned into hits. I sure hate to say there's too much music; because there's never too much music - because I sure love music-- but there's too much to get exposed on the radio at one time and I worry we are making so much of it disposable.

9. Going a bit broader - can you give me your take on the current state of the Country format? It's wider than ever in terms of sounds and influences, and now there's a sign that some traditional Country might be making resurgence. Where is it going, and is it heading in a positive direction?

I think so. I'm really pumped about the format right now. I think everything is cyclical - I completely understand that you're going to have a style that's popular for a while. I was cool with the 'bro' sound happening; it seemed to happen not too long after I got here, where we were a little more about defending Country music and proving we are cool. Now, everyone's like, "I love Country music!" I saw the tipping point in the format was right around when Luke [Bryan] did "Country Girl Shake It For Me." I think it was around 2011 during the CMA's, and it made people realize country was changing and it's appeal was getting younger quickly.. Then, Florida Georgia Line's "Cruise," full on 'bro.' There was concern after two and three years of that and that we were getting way too much of the same--but as a format we saw huge growth 18-34 and now had accessibility to the younger end of the format that we hadn't seen before. I used to laugh when we'd be expected to deliver "adults 25-54," - because "That's not a target demo! That is a family reunion." But now, Country is a family reunion. A 25-year-old and a 51 year old can both be standing next to each other at any number of concerts enjoying the show. So, I love the accessibility of all these different styles coming in. It's like an iPod on shuffle-- but at the same time, I love that I'll go from Sam Hunt to Luke [Combs] to Miranda to [Eric] Church to Jon Pardi to Thomas Rhett, and then some Maren Morris' too - I love the variety. While I do still take those phone calls that go, "that ain't Country," when I play a Sam Hunt record, those people that don't like that are still listening to us, as long you listen to them vent a little. We're giving them enough of everything. I am really encouraged by the Pardi's and the Luke Combs' and the traditional coming back, but I don't want too much of that, either, you know? I like the balance right now, and that's what programmers have to do right now - balance it.

10. In your expanded role as VP, you gave up co-hosting mornings on WQMX, though you still filled in occasionally. Do you miss that ground level connection to listeners and being on the air?

I absolutely miss being on the air! The only thing I don't miss is getting up. Sarah Kay was on vacation a week ago, and Scott [Wynn] and I got back in, and it really was a blast. We did the show together for 8 years so getting back in is fun. But our current morning show is great. Sarah has been a great addition. It is the perfect world to jump back in whenever I want to. I do miss that connection, so I work to stay really connected in other ways...I go to so many station events and I rarely miss a show; we do a lot of "Rising Star" showcases, so we are in the thick of it, and I'm always making sure to hang with our listeners. It isn't quite the same as throwing out content and having the phones light up or see what's connecting and what's not on social media but it's all good.

In 2013, your now-husband, Tim, proposed to you on the air. Does that qualify as your all-time favorite moment on the radio?

If I said anything but 'yes,' I'd be a terrible person! But, yes, it was very cool. It was very cute, because it was Valentine's Day - I mean, how stereotypical? We were doing all these romantic things on the air, and I was like, "Okay, it's 9 o'clock, we're going to kick off 12 in a row and get into our workday," and Scott says, "No, wait! We have one more call," and it was Tim, who was literally calling from his cell phone in the hallway. He said, "My girlfriend listens to this show every day," then I'm hearing it, and he said, "And, there's something important I want to ask her." Then, I heard some feedback on my headphones, because he was walking into the studio on the cell phone, and I turned around, and it hit me, so I was like, "Oh my, God! It's Tim!" Then, he continued with the proposal. But, I was so surprised that I didn't answer right away and hugged him! Scott was like, "Will you say something?!" And I said, "Oh! I supposed I should say 'yes!'" It was a great radio moment, because I totally forgot I was on the air. He got me good, then later he said, "I was so nervous and that was such a risk, because I was hoping you wouldn't be mad at me for doing that on the air." It was very cool.