10 Questions with ... Cody Johnson

BRIEF CAREER SYNOPSIS:

Texas Country artist Cody Johnson released six studio albums independently, earned multiple awards and national recognition, hit over 330 million on-demand streams, and sold out the Houston Rodeo all before recently signing a major label record deal with Warner Music Nashville -- proving that Johnson's story is far from an overnight success. Born and raised in Texas, Johnson has always been surrounded by Country music, but was also heavily involved in the rodeo. Eventually choosing to walk away from the professional bull-riding lifestyle, Johnson continued to chase his love for Country music as he built his brand and his fanbase traveling nationwide on hundreds of tour dates per year. Now, as Warner Nashville's newest signee, Johnson is destined for success at Country radio with his new single, "On My Way To You," and is expected to release a new project soon. He recently chatted with the All Access Nashville team about the Texas Country music scene; how the partnership with Warner was eight years in the making; his trick to putting on memorable shows with his band; and much more.

1. Cody, thank you so much for coming in today to discuss your new music, your new partnership with Warner Music Nashville, and your career journey. You're a Texas native, correct? How did you decide to take this music nationwide as opposed to continuing to work the Texas Red Dirt scene?

I was born just about an hour north of Houston, and we still live there. I was pretty small-minded in the beginning; I just wanted to go out and play. But, when I met Howie, my manager who has been with me from the very beginning, he asked me, "Where all do you play?" And, I told him where I had been playing, and he goes, "Okay, well, you're not going to play there anymore. We're going to send you to Lubbock for no money." Well, why?! "Because, it's far away. And, we're going to go to Oklahoma for no money." For years, we didn't make any money. We were broke! I didn't make any money. [My wife, Brandi,] had to have two jobs and quit school. Howie wasn't making any money off of me, and my booking agent - who I still have - didn't make any money off of me. We all agreed that we believed in me enough that we wouldn't make any money, but that eventually, it was just going to hit. That was a big gamble! It's a good living, like you said, and you can make quite a different living. I'm pretty proud of the fact that I think we've had the most number ones on that Texas chart, close with quite a few people. It's been pretty significant, and I don't look down on that at all. But, touring in Texas didn't last very long for us. From the start, we were always pushing out. You do have artists like Aaron Watson and those guys who were telling me, "Get out! Don't stay here. Get out and do something. Go further." Not that there's anything wrong with touring in Texas. I don't like when people refer to touring in Texas as "the minor leagues" or a step down. It pisses me off! It's hard work. It's maybe even harder than doing it anywhere else. You can't come from here and go there - you can't draw a crowd. I think that the reason I'm here with you now is just because I have a drive. Everybody that I've surrounded myself with - from my wife to Howie to my entire team - we all have a drive to push this as big as it can get, whether that was in Texas or nationally or globally. I just don't feel good laying my head down at night knowing that I didn't try to blow this thing up as big as it could be. Could you imagine if Garth Brooks or George Strait - and I'm not comparing myself there, by any means - but, could you imagine if they'd been pigeon-holed as an Oklahoma guy and a Texas guy? Or, if they hadn't had people around them to tell them that they could go be and grow? Our industry would be completely different! I think that because it has never been an option for me - I felt like, "Well, I'm never gonna get played on the radio, and I'm never gonna get a record deal." - so, I wanted to go book some shows. Let's just go out there and travel the country and book some shows. What the hell could go wrong?! What's the worst thing that we could fall back on here? And, so, I don't know that it happened on purpose, but because I've been doing this for so long, it all just kind of met in the middle. I don't know that I was looking for this or that this town was looking for me. But, if you work hard enough for long enough, someone eventually says, "Well, he ain't going away."

2. What is it about this time in your career, and Warner Music Nashville, that made this partnership feel right for you at this moment?

In years past, we've always been offered things. And, me and Espo had this conversation when we were drinking margaritas and making this deal. He said, "I'll admit to you that seven years ago when Cris Lacy was going, 'Look at Cody Johnson!' I screwed up, and I didn't pay attention. But, in my own defense, you were not the artist that you are now, and you didn't have the numbers that you do now." And, I told him that I completely agree. Cris Lacy was one of the first to buy in, and she constantly kept her finger on the pulse. So, there was a relationship there. So, she had one foot in the door when everyone else was playing catch-up. That being said, I will also say that we did approach this album differently, too. In albums past, we wanted to make sure we were proving who we are - musically, lyrically, and everything you flip through had to be all Cody. And, I was writing most of it in the beginning. Not because of what Texas or Nashville wanted, but because it's what we wanted to give as a complete package. But, on this project, I said that since it wasn't an option, we were just gonna go in and have fun. I said, "Screw it man! It's not gonna get played on the radio, and it's not gonna get distribution, and we're just gonna go out and play it for the fans. So, let's go in and make exactly what we want to make!" There was no agenda. The beauty of it is that they saw it - and by "they," I mean a lot of different record labels - and said, "We want a piece." My first reaction - I'll be straight-up with you - was, "I'm not letting YOU have a piece of something that I worked this hard to create." But, then, you start thinking about it like, "Well, we created something that everybody wants now. This is the time." Now we have it. For me, it came down to really, truly praying about it. And, it was really just very black and white after that. It was pretty peaceful. There was talks in meetings about change. From changes in sound to things like, "Well, if you go overseas, you might have to take your cowboy hat off." But, that's not something I'm willing to do. I'm not going to change the way I look, and I'm not going to change the way I sound. I want your constructive criticism, sure. I want that from you as a label or whomever so that you can help make me better, but with Warner, it was just pretty apparent. And, it came down to me and Espo sitting there talking face-to-face. He said, "Man, if we screw this up, it's gonna be on me and you. There ain't nobody else to blame. You're the head, and I'm the head. If this fails, it's on us." So, we decided to spit and shake hands, so to speak, and it happened. They told me, "We don't want to change you. We believe in you, and you've worked hard enough, and we want to be behind you and push this." My question was, "We know you have the kind of leverage to put this kind of music on the radio, but are you going to use it?" And, I let them pick the first single. They picked the Country-est damn thing on the record! That speaks pretty highly, because they absolutely picked the most Country thing on there, but it's the thing that speaks to who I am. I thought that spoke volumes. I get to preach about how hard I've worked and how long it has taken us to get here all I want to, but at the end of the day, I've got them behind me now, and they believe in me. That's a huge, huge step. We've got content coming out in October. We've got the pre-order. I've got a cowboy hat line coming out in January. Timing is everything, and I don't know why, but now is just the right time.

3. Speaking of timing, it seems that your music is hitting mainstream Country radio at a time when the landscape of the format is beginning to shift. Do you think that the two are related? How does your music fit in the current landscape of Country radio?

I feel like the pendulum swings, and different things can make that pendulum swing. I was noticing you have Billy Ray Cyrus and Shania Twain up here on the wall. I feel like that was a huge pendulum mark in this industry, both of them, at separate times. They made the music shift. Glen Campbell and Ray Price used to have a lot of strings, and that was very taboo at the time. In the 80s, Phil Collins had synthesized drums, and all of the sudden, Alabama has synthesized drums in "The Closer You Get." There has always been a variation of things, and I just think it has been so long since someone has played the kind of music that I'm playing. I was actually willing to put it on like a shirt and wear it authentically. It has kind of been pushed and shunned until now, and right now, I think people are hungry for something different. Also, right now, the normal, same old Country thing we are all used to, nostalgically from the past, is a new and different thing to this generation. If you come to my shows, you'll see an old Mexican couple next to a young white guy next to a black guy - it's so diverse in age and gender and race - and I think it's because people are latching on to this "new" thing. Some, because they've been waiting for it to come back around for a long time, but for the Millennials, it's because they think it's new. I'm okay with the last ten years of not being played, though. It all worked out. God has a plan.

4. Now that you are releasing a single to mainstream Country radio, how are you feeling about the process? What has the reaction been, from your point of view, so far?

I've always wanted to have a record deal and be on the radio, because all of my heroes had record deals and were on the radio. That's always the mountain that has been in the distance, but until now, it was a thought of, "Man, that sure would be nice someday." Until you put in the miles and the hard work, you just hit a little plateau. Once I can see some light at the end of the tunnel, though, I rip and ride. I don't just chase my dreams, I run after them. It's really different to see the reaction from radio this time around, considering that for the last ten or eleven years, it hasn't really worked. It's not been an option for me. So, at this point, to see all the love and everyone jumping on board, it's been kind of surreal.

5. But, despite the early believers and warm reception, you are having to do things a little bit differently in regard to a traditional radio tour. You've already had sold-out tour dates on the calendar, so you're forgoing the radio tour and brining programmers out to shows. Is this by accident, by design, or a bit of both?

There's the quintessential kid-moves-to-town, kid-gets-a-record-deal, kid-does-a-radio-tour, kid-gets-a-radio-#1, kid-builds-a-fanbase. Right? You can literally flip-flop that for me, though. We built the fanbase first, and I'm not going to cheat on them. I'm not going to take time away from them, and these shows I've sold to them, and the promises I've made to them to go date this other person who honestly just really hasn't invested a lot of time so far. That was my whole point. So, they were like, "Well, how do we do this differently?" That's what's so cool about the Warner team. They're looking at me and saying, "Well, you're different, you're an anomaly, and you're completely different than anything we're used to working with and dealing with, so how do we differentiate the process?" It's not, "Well, he did this, then he did this, and so that's the way you have to do it." It's not going to work like that with me. There's a reason why there's Excedrin, Tylenol, Advil, and all these different types of the same damned thing - one thing doesn't work for everybody. We're still taking the personal time. Everybody is coming out several hours before the show time and getting to know them personally. We still get to have that handshake and that face-to-face time, and I'm still doing what I'm supposed to do there in their office. But, we're also getting to cater to them. I get to say, "Thank you for coming out, man. We've got you a bar set up over here, and there's some food here. My house is your house; whatever you need, just let us know. Here's the section we have roped off for you where nobody can jack with you and you can see the show." And, they get to see the show and have the full experience. And, our shows are really an experience.

6. How has the Warner team handled the set-up with you as you embark on this non-traditional version of a radio tour to set up this single and forthcoming album? Has working with the label changed the way you're handling your business at this point?

I'll say this right here. They don't affect me in any way. We don't change anything we do about our business, and we aren't going to change anything we do in our touring. It won't change the creative process, and I'm not getting a new producer. When I say that it would blow your freakin' mind to know what kind of a business merger we just made...it really would. If I laid it all out in front of you, you would go, "No frickin' way. There's no way that Warner signed that." When I say that they believe in me, they really do believe in me. Now, there's a constant conversation around, "Hey, man, what do you think about this?" or "What do you think about that?" And, at least 50% of the time, it's stuff I wouldn't have thought about. For instance, the branding department. I never thought about that! I've built my own brand, so I understand the concept, but I never thought about what kind of shoes to wear or how to get a national commercial. So, big things like that are starting to click, and they're helping me. But, in no shape, form, or fashion are they going to say, "Well, now you've gotta do this." It's the most respectful atmosphere I've ever been in, and it's probably going to piss a lot of other record labels off in about two years, honestly. But, that's okay. When we were talking about this merger with Warner, I had to say, "I don't know it all, and I won't tell you that I ain't gonna change, because that's not where I'm coming from. I'm just telling you flat out that if I'm not doing what I believe in and being my authentic self, I'm just really not good at being anything else." Sincerely. If I'm not being me, I will fail and plummet. I really, truly feel like my fall will come if I ever try to manipulate what I really, truly am at my core. I just need to stick to what I know and be myself, because that's what I'm selling. I don't want to disrespect the gift I've been given. I feel like God put me on this earth for a purpose. I was having some hard times on the road this year - I was having to fire guys, and I had equipment breaking down, and it was all just part of that grind on the road that no one ever sees. And, I was bitching and moaning about it, and someone said, "Well, what do you feel like your purpose is?" I thought about it and said, "Show up, set it up, shower, play, repeat." But, someone said to me, "You need to think about how much your music effects people." Last night, Barrett Baber came up to me - we just cut a song on this record that he was a co-writer on - and he showed me a picture of his family. I was like, "What am I looking at here, man?" And, Barrett goes, "I just want you to know that you changed our lives when you cut that song. I have three publishing deals on the table right now because of you cutting that song. You're making my dreams come true." You stop, and you get taken aback, and you realize that - really and truly - none of this is about me. I'm just lucky enough to get to be the host for this thing that I feel like God put me on this earth to do. I'm just lucky to be here, and I spend every day like that.

7. Are you at all concerned that the fanbase you've built - especially in Texas - will consider you a "sell-out" for signing with a major? How are you handling that with your fanbase?

You're looking at the process, and I'm just as clueless about this as you are. This is what I'm trying to do, and that's a really good question. I got a similar question from a fan on one of those online chats or whatever the hell it was, where this fan's question was basically, "So, are you going to screw this up?" So, there was that! It's like, "What are you going to say to your fans who may only be your fans because they are a part of this niche, independent artist thing, and they know that they can come see you at Billy Bob's or somewhere like that?" And, my reply was, "Hide and watch." For all the naysayers, come buy a ticket and be a part of it! I'd like for people ten years from now to just be able to say, "Yeah, man, he's got that Texas sound." Like, Zac Brown Band. Maybe someone says, "They've got that Georgia sound." Does that mean they sold out?! Heck, no! That's just where they're from! I believe that George Strait and Miranda Lambert had a "Texas sound," too. And, you're only a sell-out if you sell out! We've had a lot of opportunities to sign on the dotted line, and we could've been here in this town a long time ago. But, it just wasn't the right time and the right set of conditions and situations. My integrity, and my belief in what I do and who I am, just wouldn't let me do it. We want to make sure the fans know that they are the reason we aren't changing. I'd love for someone to look at me and say, "Well, Cody went over there to Nashville, and he didn't change. Cody went and did it, so maybe I can do it." That would be really cool, one day when I'm dead and gone, for someone else to be able to say, "He did it, and maybe I can do it, too." Texas guys are pretty fraternal, I think. We feel like we've cut our teeth on the same roads. The guys in the generations that have come before me - everyone from Pat Green to Aaron Watson to Casey Donahew and especially Kevin Fowler - have handed down to me their bits of wisdom. "Hey, man, here's what did work for me or what didn't."

8. You built your brand and your fanbase around your live shows, correct? Can you explain to us what a Cody Johnson show is like and tell us a little bit about how you built that brand and base?

It's very fun! I got asked yesterday one of the coolest questions I've been asked. Someone said, "Is it more important for you to relate to a song, or for you fans to relate to a song?" And, it's absolutely more important - as far as cutting a song, it's important that I believe in it, and if I don't believe in the integrity of the song, I'm not going to cut it or sing it - but, even if I believe in it, if I don't think YOU are going to relate to it, I'm not going to cut it. Our shows are very much not about us. We are a band - this isn't a one-man act. If you come to my shows, you'll hear me mostly talking about my band and about the fans. We empower the fans. Even with our partnership with Warner, we tell our fans, "You're the reason why we're here. You're the reason we are on the radio." Because, they are! For the last ten years, they've been the ones buying the tickets, whether it was 200 people in a club or 75,000 at Houston Rodeo. Those people have given me a career. So, ultimately, if I stop making the show about them, I'm screwing the pooch on this deal. It's very, very, fun, and it's all about them. Every song is in a place in the set list to make them feel something - whether it's a slow, sexy song to make people love up on one another, or if you're shifting gears in to something rockin' that may or may not cause a fight sometimes. I believe in moving people, and every inch of what we do on stage is to make you move in some way - to reach down a touch your soul a little bit. We don't take it lightly. And, I can sit here and say this to you all day long, but until you come out and see it, it looks really good on paper. But, it's the real deal, and I live for it.

9. As a live act, you cite influences like Chris LeDoux and Garth Brooks. But, as a songwriter, you cite Merle Haggard and Willie Nelson. Those are two very different ends of the same spectrum. How do you balance those two sides of yourself, and which do you think is really running the show?

It depends on which one of me you want to talk to. I kind of have to stay in the middle of those two guys. It's two different hats to wear. As a songwriter, I believe you have to write the song. I don't care if it's a Cheetos commercial - just write the song. You got blessed with that song in that moment. It fell out of the air and came to you. Whether you like it or not, write it. You've got the bat in your hands swingin', but it's not always going to be a home run. Whereas, when it comes to songs I've written, and songs that get pitched, and songs that I cut as an artist - that's completely different. There's a certain thing we are looking for. I think my age gap - I was born in '87, so I very much grew up on 70s and 80s music, because of my parents - but I love 90s Country, because that's when I started listening and I was requesting songs. I saw your "A Place In The Sun" plaque out there from Tim McGraw. That album is one of the first Tim McGraw albums I had - that 90s era really shaped me. But, I like a lot of stuff. I like Rock. I like a lot of Rap. There's a lot of things that I've let myself obtain and get in to my head and affect who I am, musically, but without straying from that mainline of what I am. I want you to be able to hear my music and say, "That guy sounds like Southern Rock! Man, I could hear that on the radio." Or, "That's really reminiscent of some Merle Haggard stuff." I want you to feel that, but I don't want you to think that I'm emulating them. I've written with everybody from Texas. It's fun, even if you don't write a hit, to just kick back and drink a beer and play and write some music for fun. But, heck, me and Chase Rice just started writing a song together the other night. We had played a show together, and I didn't know him from Adam. But, we started writing together, and sometimes, when it happens, it happens. As far as producing and my records, if I haven't invited you to be in the room, I don't' really want you there. I'm pretty ADD when it comes to that, so I only want people in the room that I know I can trust and depend on to keep me on track, and who I can also bounce ideas off of and get great feedback. I've written with a lot of writers over the years. I had a publishing deal with Tim DuBois for four years. They were gracious enough to make all these introductions for me, from David Lee to Jeffrey Steele, for crying out loud. You want to talk about intimidating? Go write with Jeffrey Steele! But, we hit it off, and we love each other. I'd also always wanted to write with Craig Wiseman, but that pairing didn't work. Craig's a great guy, and he's a great writer, but it just didn't click. You do find those writers, though, like David Lee, and you just look at how many songs we've written together now. Dan Couch is completely different from David Lee, but we work well together, too. You find different people, and they bring out different things in you. Brandi told me yesterday, "I can tell who you've been writing with when you come home, just based on your demeanor and the way you start talking and the way you were thinking." You feed off those people, and I think the writers sometimes just don't get enough credit.

10. Going back to your live act, you performed to your biggest crowd during this year's Houston Rodeo - you became the first independent artist to sell out the 75,000-seat arena, and you hold the record for second-highest ticket sales, only behind Garth Brooks. Was that on your bucket list, or did you ever think it was a possibility? And, conversely, how do you handle then having to go the next week and play to a brand-new group of people in a small venue who may have never seen you after just experiencing a show of that magnitude?

No, I don't think I even thought it was a possibility. When I was in the van, just getting there and getting people in the door was the goal. That was the first mountain - knowing we had to get people there. Without people, we don't have anything. So, I don't think that came in to play. And, I'm actually part of somewhat of a fraternity back in Texas called The Tejas Vaqueros. A lot of those guys are on the Houston and San Antonio and Austin Rodeo Boards. I'd been a member of that, and it still didn't happen, so I thought, "Well, it's obviously one of those things that just isn't political." I knew all these guys on a first name basis, and they still weren't gonna book me. But, when we got the call when Old Dominion had to cancel, I felt so badly, because apparently someone had died in their family. I felt bad even playing it, and it really sucked. We weren't the first option, either. My pep talk to the guys that night was, "Let's be real. We may not get this opportunity again. Take lots of pictures, and soak it all up, and let's play tonight like it's the last time we're ever gonna play for an audience this big. I don't know the future, and you don't, either." Whenever we got the call that they wanted us back the next year, that's when it kicked in. THAT is when we set a goal to sell it out. Let's not just play it again - let's kick the door in and say, "Here we are." And, to be honest with you, when I'm going in to Portland, Maine - or to somewhere like Manhattan - and we know that we are playing in front of a 750-cap room, I just don't change anything. We do the same damn thing we did at the Houston Rodeo. I'm not gonna sugar-coat the first experience; I want the first experience to be something that they either like or they don't. I have people who will come to meet and greets, and it will crack me up, because they say, "I'm not even a fan of Country music, but I just have a lot of fun when I come to your shows." Great! I'll take it! Because, you keep showing up. I don't want you to walk away, then come back and think, "Awe, that was different than the first time I saw it." When we were in Manhattan, we played The Grammercy in New York. For my pep talk with my guys - and you can call this haughty if you want - but, I said, "I'm not playing here tonight. My head is in Madison Square Garden. You go out here and you play for these people like that, because someday, we're going to sell out Madison Square Garden. Don't go out there and play like we're playing to a small room at the Grammercy tonight; you go out there and smile and be energetic and play like we are playing Madison Square Garden. And, you mark my words, one day, we will be." You want to talk about a band on fire! That's how we always do it. We're always looking at what mountain is ahead and what's next for us in the future and down the road. I like playing a show with a chip on my shoulder and something to prove. That's just who I am. I'm constantly thinking about what's next. But, it's not because I'm unsatisfied in any way. If this all ended tomorrow, I'd be satisfied with saying, "What a hell of a ride. That was really fun!" We are really blessed, but I'm just really, really competitive and driven.

Bonus question! You had a lot of success coming in to this deal with Warner, and you could have maintained your independent status and continued to make a good living for your family by touring the country. What do you hope to accomplish now that you've signed with Warner, and what mark do you hope to make on this forma?

I want you to know this before I answer this question - I'm not here today thinking about how rich I can get or how famous I'm gonna get. The label and the team are freaking out because the single is #50 two weeks before the add date. And, I'm just like, "That's cool." My thought, and what I hope part of my legacy will be, is that I want to kick this door open to show not just this town, and not just Texas, that it can be done. Don't think that just because you didn't do it like this other guy, that you can't do it. Play your music, and hopefully the guy after me will get to this town quicker than me and can get that respect a little quicker and sooner. Because, this town will shape you in to a better musician. There's a reason why we are all here in this town. It took me ten years to really get to this point of recognition here, and I'm very thankful for it and know that everything happens for a reason. But, ten years may be too long for the next guy. What if there's somebody else coming behind me who is just going to completely change this industry, someone who might follow my path after me? That's what I would really like to leave behind - knowing that we, as a whole, changed this industry in some way to open a door that hasn't been open in many years. The way I speak, and the way I am is only the product of years of hard work and years of radio or distribution just not being an option. Do you know what you can do in ten years when being in this town and being on the radio is not an option? You find yourself. You find yourself doing long miles and lots of things that are hard. You have to remind yourself why you're out there hitting it so hard, playing 150 or more dates in a year - just really crappy dates - playing and playing, because you don't know what else to do. And, I can't imagine a life where I don't play music. In ten years, you'll find yourself. So, now, ten years in to it, as I find myself sitting in a room with you, I do know who I am - but that was hard-earned. Everything happens for a reason, and God above kept me from getting opportunities. I think I'd have been a real asshole if I'd had success early. I really feel like it could have gone south, and that's just speaking the truth.