Dave "Chachi" Denes

After a programming successful stations, Dave "Chachi" Denes decided to forgo a future radio career for the world of imaging with Benztown, where he has expanded into voiceover talent and syndication, as well as library and syndication. Now his services are serving hundreds, if not thousands of stations in America and across the globe, advancing the art of several radio crafts. Here, Denes delves into his keys to success in imaging, voiceover, syndication, while keeping an eye on the bigger picture.

At least initially, did you have any second thoughts about leaving radio programming to do Benztown full-time?

I didn't really have a choice. As Masa Patterson (VP, Sales & Operations) and I like to say, we were "invited to leave Clear Channel" on President Obama's inauguration day. That being said, some of the best companies are built from people getting laid off. Bernie Marcus was let go from Handy Dan Hardware and went on to start Home Depot!

When CCLA let you go, I have to assume someone with your resume could, sooner or later, find multiple opportunities to program other stations. Did that cross your mind, or was it a slam-dunk decision to go into Benztown full-time?

It wasn't a slam-dunk decision at all. Honestly, I was pretty panicked and looked for a new gig for the first several months after I was first let go. Mind you, this was in the depths of the recession in 2009, so there were not a lot of jobs to be had. Fortunately, in May of that year, my mentor and friend Tracy Johnson came to the rescue and he hired me to work with Reg Johns and the team at M2O. Within a few months of that, Triton purchased M2O and I continued to work for them for about a year, training stations on their loyalty program Sticky Fish. I was able to do this from home with a little bit of travel and that was a godsend.

I've been asked a handful of times if I would be interested in going back to programming. Most recently, I was asked about my interest in programming a major-market station. It was very flattering and I would be lying to you if I said I didn't think about it a little. There are parts of programming I miss. I used to love coming up with promotions, working with talent, scheduling music and even working with the sales team. I would even go on sales calls, which I think is rare among programmers. I'm not saying 'never,' but if I ever do go back, it will be after I have enough money to not care about being fired. Jhani Kaye taught me that was integral to his success. He knew candor was crucial before Jack Welch started preaching about it.

A big problem that occurs with virtually every big company is bureaucracy and this leads to stagnation. Employees become unmotivated and in tough economic times, they are fearful of losing their gigs, so their goal becomes job preservation and to fly under the radar. Unfortunately, there is a fair amount of this in our industry and I commend leaders like Mary Berner who are trying to change that mentality. People are afraid to stand up and ultimately be truthful to their bosses. A lot of this responsibility lies on the boss to be open to criticism and have an open-door policy. We have to applaud our risk takers and encourage them to continue to think of ways to innovate. Being the Co-Founder/President of Benztown gives me the latitude within reason to do what I think is best for the company and this is a freedom I respect and cherish greatly. For me to seriously consider going back to programming, I would need the same autonomy.

Can you pinpoint a time, a certain business transaction perhaps, that convinced you that Benztown was going to succeed?

We've been incredibly fortunate and have had a lot of people take a chance on us. A big moment was when Michael Martin signed us at KMVQ/San Francisco, which was our first domestic affiliate. Tony Driskill at KSIQ (Q96) signed on as our second station affiliate, followed by Beau Duran at 92.7 the Beat in Phoenix. R Dub and I signed them all on a road trip we went on together. He was huge help in teaching me about syndication. Another big moment was when Garry Wall and Pat Bohn showed up unannounced at our small office in Burbank to see if we would be interested in doing imaging for Jack FM Network. That was a huge break for us and gave us a lot of credibility. Finally, the biggest moment was when Mike McVay and Dennis Green signed us across all of Cumulus. That was a complex deal that required not only a tremendous amount of production responsibility, but also substantial technical integration with our platform. Their belief in us tripled the size of our company overnight and I will be forever grateful to them and countless others who I didn't mention who were a big part of our success.

How did you build the Imaging side of the business?

It happened very organically. My very first boss and mentor, Tracy Johnson, had done some consulting in Europe. While he was there, he met international audio producers Andy Sannemann and Oli Klenk. They had a burgeoning jingle business in Stuttgart and were looking to expand to the U.S. A few months later, they came to town and Tracy asked if I would give them a tour of Clear Channel/Los Angeles. At the time, I was still the PD at MyFM/KBIG and had no intention of leaving. I took them to lunch at Bob's Big Boy and there we decided to form a company together, but it was shot down very quickly because my boss at CC/LA thought it would be a conflict of interest, so Premiere took it on and sold it internationally for us for about a year. I have to mention that Tanya Juhasz and Eileen Thorgusen were a big help to us during this period; I highly doubt we would be where we are today if it weren't for their support. During this time it was more of a hobby to me and I never really thought it would become a full-time gig but that changed quickly after I was let go by Clear Channel.

What's the key to successful imaging -- staying true to the current popular sounds, or trying to set future trends in imaging?

That has a lot to do with the station and format. Authenticity is a word that is overly used today, but for a good reason. People gravitate to things that are real and I believe with the gluttony of information we're all exposed to on a daily basis, our B.S. meters are more in tune than ever. Personally, I'm a big fan of parody, irreverence and a splash of Hallmark movie sap. I also think you have to be current and relevant. This morning, I woke up to a perfect example of the importance of staying current and the infrastructure we have in place at Benztown to be on top of it for our station affiliates. I woke up at 5:50a to read that Chris Cornell had died. When I read my e-mails, there was a chain from our producer in Melbourne to another producer in Auckland to Andy in Stuttgart to another producer in London, and before I had woken up in L.A., the piece was produced and uploaded in our libraries for our clients to access. That kind of global connectivity, responsiveness and action gives our clients a real advantage.

The Worldwide Radio Summit just awarded its Sixth Annual Iron Imager winner. In both years, the winners were Australian-based. To your eyes and ears, what are Australian imagers doing that are a cut above what American imagers have offered?

Australia is a hotbed for talent and I'm very impressed with the creativity that comes from that country. I think their edge largely comes from the time they're afforded. Americans work more hours and take fewer and shorter vacations than people in any other industrialized nation. It's becoming more and more understood that humans need downtime to enhance their work performance and prevent burnout. Richard Branson claims that his best ideas come to him when he's on holiday and the same thing holds true for me. Like Virgin, we let our employees take off whenever they want. We trust them implicitly and believe this policy ultimately cultivates a better culture and product. I admire Joel at All Access because I know he's also very generous to his staff when it comes to holiday time.

That being said, the imaging that comes out of Australia is epic and all of the vacations in the world doesn't make you talented. Imaging professionals like Sideshow Mike Andersen and Brad Leask are at the top of their game and have spent many years honing their craft.

Are Australian and other foreign imaging talents and styles unique to their respective countries, or could a good foreign imager be just as successful here?

It's a little of both. Almost everyone is using the same handful of DAWs and production tools like plugins, etc. The sound holds true much of the time across borders. In fact, you will find a radio station playing music in English from America, Canada, UK and Australia almost anywhere you go in the world. It's pretty incredible how pop culture transcends geography. Many people from other countries have told me they've learned English from the radio and TV. Where it breaks down the most is when it comes to writing the copy and that's why I think an Imaging Director from an English-speaking country definitely has an advantage imaging in the U.S. over those in non-English speaking countries. So I believe the answer is yes from a technical standpoint, but they would most likely need assistance with writing.

How does one build successful relationships with client stations regarding imaging?

I read a lot of business books and I just recently finished one about Sam Walton. He was a shrewd businessman and a lot of people probably rightfully feel like he didn't treat employees as well as he should have because he was always thinking about the customer first. He said, "Business is a competitive endeavor, and job security lasts only as long as the customer is satisfied. Nobody owes anybody else a living." While it's a bit harsh, there is a lot of truth to it and the fact of the matter is, you don't have a business without customers and their satisfaction is imperative. I believe Benztown's success has come from terrific service and a fantastic product. I've looked to companies like Nordstrom, Zappo's, and Disney in creating the unique culture we have at Benztown. These are companies that are centered on an impeccable customer experience, and that continues to be our focus.

How does station sales/consolidation and management changes impact those relationships?

Service is still paramount but scalability is a close second in today's media landscape. As we all know, most of us in this business are expected to do more and better with fewer resources. However, it's important to note that we're far from the only industry with these types of pressures. We've built our company in a way that allows us to scale and at the same time provide even better customer service and a higher quality product. We've done this through what I call the Benztown Fly Wheel, an idea I borrowed from Jeff Bezos. The fact that we own our platform and our libraries, and have strategic partnerships with many different companies and preferred provider agreements with Compass and Westwood One, gives us an edge up. I'm also incredibly lucky to have the best team of employees and independent contractors that anyone could ask for.

What's your take on the competitive field in Imaging?

It's been incredible to see the increased competition over the last few years. There are companies that came before us, but we're the first to make a lot of noise about the importance of great imaging to successful radio brands. I find it all really exciting and believe it's elevated the quality and overall importance of the art, which is great for our industry. The increased amount of competition that has arisen in recent years might be an indication of how easy people think it is to be profitable in this space. To put it bluntly, it's not easy. To be successful and make a profit is a long, hard trek.

Regarding voiceover, how many voice talents do you have? How do you choose them? Are you still looking to add more?

We work with over 100 of the industry's top voice talents and we're always looking to work with the very best. That being said, we're very selective and are approached almost daily by VO artists, but have to turn down most of them, which is always hard. Many are represented by agencies like Atlas and CESD, while others are independent, or up-and-comers hoping to make their mark. I love going to swap meets looking for hidden treasures. I get a lot of that same excitement when we come across someone we believe is going to be a star. I'm very proud that we've taken some chances on talent early on and it's been a thrill to see their careers take off. I'm incredibly thankful to the agents and talent we work with. Many of them took a big leap of faith when they decided to work with us and it's great to see it become such a success for everyone. They've been a large part of our growth and being a radio nerd, I get pretty giddy when I get to talk to some of the superstars we have the honor of working with.

Do you feel voice talent should be good at a variety of formats, or should they specialize in specific formats?

I think that largely depends on the talent. There are some that are incredibly versatile, while others have a narrower range but are among the very best at a particular format.

How do you choose which voice talent would be best suited for an interested station?

A lot of the time, the PD already has someone in mind or has already narrowed it down to a few. Most of them already have a pretty good idea of what they want the talent to sound like and have an overall vision for the station. When we are asked for our opinion we take a lot of things into consideration. Obviously, the overall sound and attitude the PD is trying to create for their station is a priority, but customer service and turnaround time is also important. We have to make sure our agreements are a win-win for both the station and the VO talent. I view them both as our partners. Occasionally, we run into issues where a PD is overly demanding or the VO talent isn't getting things turned around quickly. These situations are rare, but occasionally we need to intervene and make sure everything is copacetic.

Are the necessary qualities of a station voice the same as qualities for commercial voicing?

This has been a hot topic lately. I was just speaking to Erica Farber about it and the importance we as an industry need to place on commercial production on the local level to improve the quality of commercials. At this point, the vast majority of the VO work we get is for imaging. That being said, we're going to take a more active role with the RAB to see what we can do to assist in ratcheting up the quality and effectiveness of local spots. VO talent and our partners at BMG Production Music will be an integral part of this project.

Overall, what's your view of competition in voiceover talents?

It's definitely a competitive field and I believe that predatory websites have given many people false hopes while stealing their money. That's not to say all the sites out there are bad, but you have to be careful. Being a great VO talent takes a lot of skill, hard work, education and dedication. You need thick skin and can't be afraid of rejection. It's far more grueling than most people think. Many of the VO talent we work with travel with portable rigs so they can record on a moment's notice. We actually did an article on our VO blog about this very topic. It can be incredibly rewarding and some of the biggest talents make great livings, but much like being a doctor, you have to be prepared to be on call.

How does station sales/consolidation and management changes impact those relationships?

The same economic pressures apply to VO as they do to our imaging, library, jingle and syndication business. Scalability is very important and our ability to bundle products and services is a big benefit.

When it comes to your syndicated talent, please describe the competitive environment between local talent, voicetracked talent and syndicated talent.

That's an interestingly phrased question. There are some PDs who are adamant about using local talent and I can't knock that sentiment, but I would take a great syndicated show any day of the week over a mediocre local personality. Just because you're local does not mean you're going to win. Ultimately, it's about the entertainment level of the content. If content is great and local versus great and syndicated, I would give local the edge, but just a slight one. The landscape is extremely competitive, but I worry about the quality and our ability as an industry to keep talented people within it. There are far more avenues such as social media and YouTube that artists can explore now.

How does your syndicated talent stand out?

There are a number of ways. First and foremost is having a great show with a strong track record. The problem I see most is people giving up too soon. A lot of personalities have illusions that as soon as they're syndicated they will be put on from coast-to-coast and become millionaires overnight. This couldn't be further from the truth. There are very few overnight successes. Most of the time it takes years and years to become successful in this business ... and then a few years after that, you'll start making money. If you don't love it, don't do it. The titans of today took years to get where they are. Manoj Bhargava, the founder of 5-Hour Energy Drink, said: "You have to be totally determined. I hate the word passionate because you get hit in the face a few times and passion seems to fade. Determination means your face hits the floor 20 times and you get up 21 times. No matter what happens, you get up and do it again." This is a perfect quote for anyone thinking about a syndicated show.

In regard to our shows and syndicated services, I'm very lucky to have assembled the partners we have on our lineup. We have Hot Mix, Slow Jams, Nessa On Air, The Todd N Tyler Radio Empire, Tough Love with Siri, Flashback, Vipology, Incentive Sales Rewards, Dawson McAllister Live with Jessica McVay, and Lost 45s. The producers and talent behind these shows are among the best and are veterans of the industry.

How does a syndicated personality/show set goals on potential growth in terms of stations?

People forget that John Tesh only had 12 stations after his first year and his syndication company dropped him. He had dedication. He kept at it. He went out and hired Scotty Myers and 20 years later, the show is on over 400 stations. For the first two years of Sunday Night Slow Jams, R Dub lost $200 a week because he was giving the show away for free and had to pay to Fed Ex CDs to his affiliates. He now has more than 125 affiliates. These are just a couple of many similar stories.

Overall, you have a lot of balls in the air, so to speak. How do you time-manage all that?

I have a phenomenal team behind me. There is no way any of this could have been done without my partners Andy, Oli and George, our VP/Affiliate Relations Masa, our Marketing Dir. Chris and Dir./Programming and Imaging Justin and the entire Benztown team. I also have to thank Lisa Dollinger who oversees our Corporate Communications and is also my wordsmith. She's been an integral part of shaping our brand.

Are there new fields for Benztown to explore?

Our most recent announcement was our partnership with BMG Production Music that we're very excited about and expands our product line into commercial production. We're also very excited about expanding our partnership with Vipology, which we will have more information on soon. Finally, we have three new tech products that we're feverishly developing and are hoping to get them all released by the end of the year.

So what's the future of Benztown? How much bigger can the company get?

We're very open about our revenue because the last four years we've made the Inc. 5000 and as a requirement we have to submit our tax returns. Also, as I mentioned earlier, I believe in authenticity so if I'm going to talk the talk, I need to walk the walk. We just submitted again for 2016. I'm not sure if we will make the Inc. 5000 for the fifth consecutive year, but our 2016 revenue was $4.1 million. My goal is to get to $5 million. Tony Robbins mentioned last year at the Inc. 5000 Conference in San Antonio that only 0.4% of all businesses make $5 million. I think we can do it.