Michael Martin

Michael Martin is a renowned radio vet who honed his chops programming heritage Rhythmic Top 40 KYLD/San Francisco during the '90s hip-hop boom against crosstown Rhythmic rival KMEL. Since then, not only has Martin successfully programmed stations in other music formats, but today he's SVP/Programming/Music Initiatives, oversees the Alternative stations for Entercom and briefly programmed Rhythmic AC KRBQ (Q102.1)/San Francisco before hiring Billy Vidal to be its new PD. Here, Martin talks about achieving success in multiple formats on today's multiple platforms.

You're SVP/Programming/Music Initiatives for Entercom, you oversee the group's Alternative stations - and you were handling on the programming reins for Rhythmic AC KRBQ/San Francisco until you hired Billy Vidal to do it. Regardless, it seems like you have a lot on your plate...

Apparently, they thought I had too much time on my hands, so I guess that's on me. MD Billy Vidal has been promoted to PD for KRBQ (Q102.1). Vidal's new role is in addition to his current on-air duties hosting Q102.1's midday show on weekdays from 10a to 2p PST.

2. What makes the Rhythmic AC/Classic Hip-Hop format work ... specifically in the Bay Area market?

It's just like any format; it's all about finding a hole in the market and finding the right music and right air talent to fit in that hole. The great thing about that format for KRBQ and this market is that it targets a genre and an era that had an explosion of this music. There are always explosions of music going on, but this phenomenal library of music - ultimate party jams - was played non-stop by KYLD and KMEL. And what better way to deliver that iconic music for the Bay Area than have Chuy Gomez and Victor Zaragoza, two bookend jocks who were also at their pinnacle when all this great music came out? They're a perfect match with the music of Tupac and Biggie for KRBQ.

3. In his Power Player interview, Urban One CEO David Kantor thought their Boom! Format cannibalized the audiences of their other stations. Will that be a problem for you?

No, we have an Alternative, Hot AC, a Sports and a News/Talk station in this market. There's no cannibalizing of our library of the biggest songs from the '90s from airplay on KYLD and KMEL.

4. Speaking of which, have you noticed that KYLD and KMEL have reacted to KRBQ's presence?

If they did react, it wouldn't work. Every single song on our clock, all day, is one classic throwback after another. If I, as a listener, wanted to hear that genre, its feel and essence, I'd know where to get it in large doses. If KYLD and KMEL reacted by playing more throwbacks, they'd still have to play them next to currents, so it wouldn't do them any good to fulfill their brand expectation. So far, I've seen no reaction from either station, and I wouldn't expect them to react.

5. So KRBQ wouldn't play a current from an artist whose Golds are already on its playlist?

If the brand of the station is throwbacks, you stay true to that brand. Our plan is to not play currents. A lot of throwback stations in the past have gotten off track when they lost sight of why they are there, by trying to sneak in current records. I want to stay pure and deliver exactly what our listeners want all the time.

6. Obviously, KRBQ is targeted at older demos, but are you doing anything to attract younger listeners, too?

True, our target is older, but the station has been #1, #2 or #3 in 18-34, so we don't have to do anything special. Hip-hop music was definitely at its peak in the '90s and you can't underestimate the younger audience's appetite for this music and its classic songs. I mean, if you go to a club today filled with millennials and you drop these songs, all the arms go up and the screams come out.

7. As you noted, this music was jammed by two very influential stations in the '90s, KYLD and KMEL. Can you duplicate KRBQ's success in markets that don't have the Bay Area's history with this music?

That music was big everywhere. Out here on the West Coast and San Francisco specifically, you had an amazing explosion of hip-hop and R&B artists during that era, but that explosion was everywhere. Each area had its local artists turned into global superstars, but at the end of the day the music was big all over so, yes, this format can work anywhere as long as you tailor the intricacies to your market.

8. How does a station like KRBQ utilize data from Spotify and Shazam?

This station is not going find a bunch of great throwback songs we don't know from Spotify. I don't anticipate a lot of Shazam action with these titles, either. We all look at Shazam and Spotify in terms of music consumption in general. It's just another lane, another avenue the audience can use to consume music. While we look at them like we do with all platforms, we won't use them for KRBQ programming. We program specifically for Bay Area music fans.

9. So do you consider them to be a research tool or a rival?

It's funny. I used to say, when I was at KYLD, that KMEL was a rival that I would step in the ring with every day. There's still some truth to that, but a rival today is any company that offers music content the audience consumes. So do I consider them a rival per se? Not directly; I consider them another option that's fighting for my audience's attention, but I wouldn't call them a one-to-one rival. Every day, people consume music, be it by listening to the radio, by streaming, or even vinyl. It depends on the situation and the mood they're in. I'm not a stat thrower, but it's readily obvious that the American audience still listens to radio a lot more than streaming.

10. As head of Alternative for Entercom, what's your take on the state of that format, especially with all the recent flips to Alternative? Do you feel the guitar-based Alternative sound is coming back?

I'm going to pick at your descriptor of what's going on, but first of all, I always say the only people putting sonic barriers and formats into music boxes and lanes are us. The audience doesn't do that; they don't define things as narrowly as we like to do. Now back to your question ... when you mentioned guitar-based Alternative in general, you're just counting the number of guitar bands out there as Alternative. The audience is defining what Alternative is to them, and they're casting a really wide net. The music they want to hear doesn't have to sound like the Alternative we know from the '90s.

In our case, we saw the underserved radio markets for Alternative and took action. These markets have sold out Alternative shows coming through, but had no local Alternative radio station. To us, that was ludicrous. Any sizable audience consuming a style of music should be represented on the radio. We decided to represent that audience with a much wider variety of current contemporary Alternative music. Not too long ago, Alternative stations were so '90s gold-based, they couldn't crawl out of the hole clinging to that heritage. We're embracing a vibrant active format with a large amount of music coming from incredible current-based artists - and a lot of other people have jumped on it as well.

11. Does it concern or bother you when an increasing number of hit Alternative songs are shared by Top 40s?

This goes back to my comments on aggressively programming currents. Before Alternative radio became more aggressive, Top 40 and even Hot AC stations were stealing Alternative songs almost as fast as, or faster than, some Alternatives exposed them. The whole thing is about reflecting the audience in real time. When an artist's songs are scorching hot on the streets and the Alternative in town is not exposing them in the same way the audience is consuming them, Top 40s can steal those records. That means more sharing and more overlap of current-based artists. But that's where it gets fun for us. We no longer sit back. We are on offense.

12. It sounds like you consider Alternative a mainstream format and not a niche format...

Mainstream is a tricky word, but what's more mainstream than 30 Seconds To Mars, Imagine Dragons and Foster The People? They release fantastic wide-casting hit records; how can you not call them mainstream? As I said before, Alternative is how you define it. You can take those artists and songs that are more mainstream and mix them with left-of-center artists and songs to make your station unique. That's what makes Alternative great; we can go in multiple directions all at once. That's when a station sounds alive.

13. Earlier, you mentioned the importance of having air personalities who live and represent the Rhythmic AC format. Does the same go for the Alternative format?

It's the same for any jock in any format. I want the jocks to know and understand the music, understand the audience and understand the popular artists in the market. With Alternative, because it's so contemporary, you have to reflect the culture in real time, but it's basically the same criteria as a Top 40 jock. You need somebody who lives in the moment with the audience right now, in real time. That's how I want all of our jocks to be.

14. Are those characteristics easier or harder to find in up-and-coming talent nowadays?

It's harder to find if you keep looking in the same circles you've always looked. It's easier to find when you broaden your search. Look, I've always been a rhythmic pop guy ... my entire career, I was known as a rhythmic pop guy, but a little-known secret is that in the early '90s, while I was driving to my pop radio gig, I was listening to Nine Inch Nails. Good people are out there; we just have to look outside the normal walls and silos. That also means we should look outside of radio as well. Music fans are everywhere and that person who rings you up at Target might be your next superstar.

15. You mentioned earlier that when you were programming KYLD, you were going head to head with KMEL, but you didn't see your competition with the digital music platforms on that same one-to-one level. Is that because there are just so many competitors coming from different and multiple platforms?

This goes back to my original statement of you have to compete with any and every possible way the audience consumes music. You have to make sure your brand is available on every single platform that distributes music, and you have to talk about the music and your brand every single way the audience talks to each other about lifestyle culture. It's funny because in a ratings sense, yes, I step in ring to knock down my radio opponents every single day for ratings success, but at the same time, I have to be relevant and top of mind with a broader audience - and not just the people wearing meters. In a sense we're fighting multiple battles; there's reality and there's Nielsen reality - and we have to win the bigger picture game as well as the radio rankings. If we continue to dominate in overall consumption and in being top of mind with all the media outlets up against us, we're doing really well.

In the bigger picture, you can consume music everywhere from a stack of different ways. What makes radio different is that we can deliver all that music through local voices. We can add a locality that other platforms can't provide. That's a big differentiator. Sure you can hear 30 Seconds and Rise Against songs everywhere, but only a radio station can deliver them in a very local way.

16. What of your future goals and challenges ... are you looking years ahead, or are you far more focused in the day-to day?

You have to enjoy the day-to-day ride, otherwise look for another line of work because all you're doing is evolving yourself out of the ecosystem. It's funny; I used to tell my mixers all the time: "The second you think you're the greatest thing in the world, there's some 15-year-old in a garage who will clean your clocks - but you don't know it yet." I always have to think about challenging myself by surrounding myself with people who can do things better than I can. When I first started as a club mixer/MD, the PD had no idea what I was talking about half the time. He wasn't out five nights a week like I was, but he surrounded himself with people who did know what was going on in the clubs and on the street. Now I'm in that role and I have to surround myself with people who can challenge me with things I don't see every day. I have to be willing to understand and accept their insight, or I'll be willed out of existence. It's a cliché but it's still the truth: The second you think you know it all is the second you doom yourself.