10 Questions with ... Dan LeFebvre

BRIEF CAREER SYNOPSIS:

Dan's career began with web design and quickly transitioned into a love for 3D and motion graphics. He's worked for a number of studios focusing on TV ads as well as larger companies such as the U.S. Air Force, Riot Games and Pluralsight. Over the years, he's created dozens of tutorials with tens of thousands of students for platforms such as Digital-Tutors, Pluralsight, Udemy and Skillshare on topics that range from 3D modeling and texturing, photography, productivity and fluid dynamics.

1. Your background is in web design and tech, so what led you to start a podcast? What were you looking to accomplish by doing a podcast?

That's a bit of a roundabout story that spans a couple decades, so I'll try to keep it as brief as possible while hitting the key points.

Although I started off my career in web design, a bulk of my career was in 3D and motion graphics. This led me to work at an online training company called Digital-Tutors. At DT, our team created training videos for movies and gaming companies like Pixar, Blizzard, EA, etc. As the company grew and as content marketing got more popular, we decided it'd be helpful to start a blog. I've always had an interest in writing, and since I had a background that could talk to other artists, I was asked to help with the blog. Eventually, I took over managing it completely and hired out a team to create the content.

In 2014, our company was bought out by Pluralsight and my team was one of those that saw a lot of reorganization with people moving to other teams. It was down to just one other guy and myself working on the blog, and he had the idea to start a podcast. Ironically, he didn't listen to podcasts, but we decided to take advantage of the connections we had at some of the biggest movie and game studios in the world. We were already doing a lot of interviews for the blog, and one of the most time consuming parts was writing the article from the interview. So it seemed natural to see if some people would let us record the calls and just release it as a podcast instead.

We had the privilege of interviewing some amazing people like Patrick Lin (Director of Photography at Pixar), Jorge Gutiérrez (Director of "The Book of Life"), Grant Wilson (from "Ghost Hunters," who now is the Art Director for a board game company), Stan Alley (VFX Supervisor at Weta Digital), and many, many more. That podcast lasted for about a year until there was an unexpected downsizing at the company. I know everyone says things like that are unexpected, but to give you an idea of how unexpected it was, we had already lined up an interview for the following week to talk to Roger Guyett (VFX Supervisor at ILM), as well as another interview with a couple of the artists from Cantina Creative.

Sadly, those interviews didn't happen, as my co-host, myself and the rest of the marketing department at our location were let go. Personally, I felt like we never got to say goodbye to the fans of our podcast. It just disappeared without a trace. I didn't think that was right to do that to people who liked the show, but there was nothing I could do about it. My co-host and I loved the podcast we were doing so much, that we wanted to start something similar to keep it going. Just for the fun of it.

After we found new jobs, of course.

As is often the case, life made that difficult. Since we don't work together anymore, it's really tough to do an interview-based show that relies on not only the schedules of other people, but finding time for the two of us to meet up as well. We never could get it going, so I decided to find something I could do on my own schedule without the logistics of needing to line up interviews.

I'm sure no one that listened to my old show listens to my new one, but in some small way it helps feel like making up for leaving everyone hanging. Doing it all on my own also meant no matter what life throws at me in the future, I'll at least be able to let my listeners know it'd be going on hiatus—or goodbye—whatever the case may be. They wouldn't be left hanging. After a couple weeks of kicking around ideas in the back of my mind, I was reminded of a conversation I had with my wife a few months prior. It was on the way home from going to see a performance of the musical "Les Misérables." Even though that musical is historical fiction, I spent the entire ride home reading the Wikipedia page about the true story of the French Revolution to my wife, who was driving. Remembering that trip home spawned the idea. I've always been one to look up the real story after I see a movie anyway, so I thought maybe there were others out there who might be the same. So I tried it for one of the movies I'd seen recently, "The Revenant." That was the first episode, and it continued from there.

2. In a similar vein, what got you into movies? To what do you credit your interest in movies?

Obviously, watching movies was a big part, but my interest in movies was really fed by my background as a 3D artist. Even though I haven't worked for a VFX studio directly, the tools I was using and eventually teaching were the same used to make today's movies and games. Since Hollywood is a huge part of the CG industry, the communities and conferences I'd attend would be for the movies or games industries.

3. The idea behind the show is a good one and it's surprising that there wasn't a show about the true stories behind "based on a true story" movies... or was there? Did you research what else was out there before starting the show, and would it have mattered had you found someone else tackling the same theme? Would you advise aspiring podcasters to see who the competition might be, or just go ahead and do their own things to the best of their abilities?

Thanks! To answer the last question first: Yes. I would always advise aspiring podcasters to see who else is out there. I'd also advice you do your own thing to the best of your ability.

I'm stealing this advice from someone I had the pleasure of interviewing: Shaddy Safadi. You might not know his name, but if you've played games like "Uncharted," "The Last of Us," or "The Division," you've seen the result of his concept art directly, or the art of the company he owns now, One Pixel Brush. Shaddy explained to me some advice that I've stolen (it's OK, he said I could) and offered as advice to others since then. It was basically this: Find the person who's doing what you want and copy what they're doing.

Artists and other creatives are scared to do this coming out of school, but it forces you to figure out how to get to that level of quality as fast as possible. Professional artists making the movies and games you watch and play every day are doing this to learn from each other. You can't not be you, so you will automatically add your own uniqueness as you start to create whatever it is you're creating. You might think you need to start from scratch, but that's not what professionals do. The company that made the VFX for "King Kong" (Weta) developed a custom system to cover a CG character with fur. Once they did that, they were able to use the same system for "The Jungle Book" and the "Planet of the Apes" movies. My point here is that you don't have to reinvent the wheel every time.

Shaddy was talking about concept art for movies and games, but it's just as applicable for podcasting. If you're looking to create a podcast, find one you really like and try to copy how it's made. This will force you to look at the podcast like a creator instead of as a listener. For example, as you listen what comes first? Is there intro music? Is there a separate intro from the bulk of the show? Where are the ad breaks (if any), and is there a consistency to how the show is structured? Once you figure out how a show you really like is structured, now go recreate that. If your favorite show is "Serial," go recreate a new episode of "Serial" with your own content. You can't not be you, so your content with a proven formula from your favorite podcast will create something new. You don't have to publish it in the end, but that process of breaking it all down will help you learn what it takes to create the show you want.

I know that was a long-winded answer, but hopefully it's helpful! I'd really encourage anyone who wants to learn more to check out Shaddy's interviews. Unfortunately the original blog I ran isn't up anymore (it's been migrated, but some of the images and such aren't working last I checked), but I've got screenshots of the original articles over on my site, as well as a copy of the podcast interview I did with Shaddy. Check them out here: danlefeb.net/work. The three-part blog article series is the Behind One Pixel Brush series under the Articles header, while the podcast interview with Shaddy is under the PixelHub Podcast header.

To answer the question about the origins of my show, yes, I did some research to see what else was out there. I already had the experience of doing the podcast I mentioned before, so that was beneficial. But a solo show is a bit different, so I followed the steps I mentioned above by finding a couple podcasts I really like and broke down how they structure their shows. Then I took the best of all of it and created my own content around that structure. It's changed a little bit from the first episode to now, but that helped me get up and running real fast.

If you search around, you'll find my show isn't the only podcast, website, YouTube channel, etc. that covers the topic of movies that are based on a true story. It may be surprising that there aren't very many of them, but there's a couple. The thing that surprised me the most was that the domain name basedonatruestorypodcast.com was available.

I've never considered that my show has to be the only one. If you look for any topic, you're bound to find there's multiple options out there for content. Which I think is great! There might be other shows out there similar to mine, but I don't see them as competitors. I think we complement each other, even if we've never talked. Every person is unique, so hopefully my show comes across as something different than others that might be doing something on a similar topic. I mean, how many different podcasts there are for "Game of Thrones," "Westworld," and "The Walking Dead"? Or how many different technology podcasts? Fill in the topic, and you'll find tons of podcasts on just about every topic out there.

I don't know anyone who only listens to a single podcast on the topics that interest them. So I wouldn't expect my show to be the only podcast that people listen to that covers topics relating to history and movies. My show is only about 30 to 40 minutes a week, so it's not going to be the only podcast people listen to. I just hope mine is one of the shows that you enjoy listening to each week.

4. Even as a side project, it's always good to at least get a podcast to pay its own way. How are you working to monetize the show -- Patreon, merch, other things?

Yeah, monetizing is always helpful. As the saying goes, "Passion is great, but it doesn't pay the bills." The primary ways I monetize the show are through Patreon, because that's what most people expect for podcasts. But I also release the transcripts on a pay-what-you-want module on my site as well as reformatting them for Kindle and putting them as short stories on Amazon. Maybe at some point I'll do more things like merch, but I haven't had the time to do that yet.

5. Different hosts take different approaches to podcast production. How much time per week do you devote to the show, including research and production? What's your work process like for a typical show?

My process is pretty straightforward. I have two types of episodes. The most common are the episodes where I compare the movie to history. The other one is to look at the history behind a movie that's not out yet. For example, I recently released an episode on Bitter Harvest the week before the movie came out. Obviously the movie's not out yet, so I haven't seen it. So instead of comparing the movie to history, that type is just explaining the history behind the movie with the idea that you'll go into watching the movie with a better understanding of the history behind it.

For most episodes, the movie is already out, so my first step is to watch the movie. As I'm watching it, I'll take notes and jot down either key points in the movie or questions that I'm having about the things in the movie. Once I have my notes from watching the movie done, I'll start writing. I always try to follow the movie timeline, answering the questions I had from watching the movie or interjecting things that I find while I'm researching. That part is by far the most time consuming, as anyone who's done historical research knows. It involves finding multiple sources, if possible, and the most reliable sources you can. Sometimes that's easy. Sometimes it's not. I try to get four or five episodes written before I record them. Then I'll dedicate a weekend to record, edit and schedule the episodes. Then it's time to move onto watching and writing the next episodes.

As for how long it takes, I meticulously time everything, so as of answering this question I've spent 670 hours on the podcast. That's everything to do with the show, including researching, production, building the site and pages for each episode, marketing the show, etc. since the first episode in April of 2016 and spread across 43 episodes that I have either released or ready to release. So that's roughly 15 hours per episode. It's enough to keep me busy on nights and weekends to get an episode out each week.

6. What other podcasts do you listen to? What are your favorites?

A few of the shows I tend to listen to frequently are: "Acquired", "Always Listening", "Beyond the To-Do List", "CG Garage", "Drift & Ramble", "The VFX Show", "Good Bad Show", "Greyscalegorilla", "Into the Fray", "Lore", "The Paranormal Podcast", "PetaPixel Photography Podcast", "Podcast Junkies", "Podcasters Unplugged", "Podcasters Roundtable", "Stuff They Don't Want You To Know", "Stuff You Should Know", "TechStuff", "The Allan McKay Podcast", "Art of VFX", "The Feed", "The Productivityist Podcast", "Unexplained", "Write Now", and "Writing Excuses." There's more that pop in and out, but those tend to be the core of what I listen to. I'm always on the lookout for new podcasts to check out, so if you have any recommendations, let me know!

7. Of all the movies you've analyzed, which was the most disappointing to you to discover that the truth wasn't really as it was depicted in the movie?

There's two. "The Conjuring" is definitely one, but maybe not the reason you think. Not because of the supernatural elements. If people want to believe in the paranormal, that's perfectly fine. If you noticed from my podcast list, I enjoy topics of the supernatural. I'm skeptical, but I find those topics fascinating because there's so much we just don't know. But from everything I learned about the true events behind "The Conjuring," including talking to some folks who have spent years researching the actual home, it appears the story behind "The Conjuring" was nothing more than some people taking advantage of others by making a living off of those claims.

The other one was "The Black Dahlia." That was a true crime that gripped the entire nation for years. We may not know everything about the murder of Elizabeth Short, but I think we know enough that the filmmakers had a great opportunity to tell a true crime story. But they decided to go a completely different route and the namesake murder for the movie hardly even makes an appearance.

8. How offended are you, if at all, when you see a movie and then learn how far off from the truth the movie is? Can you separate the entertainment aspect from the inaccuracy?

Oh, I'm not offended at all. Even with a film like The Conjuring, I think if you're into the horror genre, that's a fun series of films. I can enjoy a movie for what it is: Entertainment. Because of my background getting to chat with people making movies and seeing how they're made, I also get to enjoy a movie for the technical side. It's even better if it's accurate to history, but sometimes what really happened doesn't lend itself to being a good 1.5 to 2 hour long movie. With that said, I'm also a huge history buff, so I really enjoy digging into the research and finding out what actually happened.

9. How do you get the word out about your podcast? What ways are you trying to grow your audience?

Mostly through social media: Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. I've done some ads on each of those as well as some Google ads, but they can get quite expensive so I don't do them very often.

10. What's the most important lesson you've learned from doing your podcast?

That's a tough question. I've learned a ton, so it's hard to come up with just one. If I had to pick, though, it'd be: Don't do something you think will be a great podcast. Do something you love to do and then figure out how to turn that into a great podcast. It can't seem like work to you or you'll get burned out fast. For example, 15 hours a week might not seem like much, but that's in the evenings, weekends aside from a full-time job, family, etc. It has to be something you're willing to stay up late and get up early to do. I can't count the number of times I've gotten up at 3 or 4 in the morning to record because my family and three dogs are asleep so they won't be making noise in the background.Love what you do, have fun doing it and that'll come through as you record!